[Emily Jones]

Reviewing my original post, I don't think I said anything about race...

Honestly, would you let a person with genes coding for an extra leg or something like that mate?

I think you're mistaking me for someone who could tell them they can't.

[Kevan Olson]

Reviewing my original post, I don't think I said anything about race...

I was replying to LostInMyHead, and his ideals that "It's ok to kill other species, the Enclave's goal isn't race."

[Smokey]

I wouldn't mind the enclave if they actually kept peace instead of shooting at everyone and everything in sight. I think the BoS's armor looks better, but the plasma weapons are cool, as are the vertibirds.

[Kate Norris]

I wouldn't mind the enclave if they actually kept peace instead of shooting at everyone and everything in sight. I think the BoS's armor looks better, but the plasma weapons are cool, as are the vertibirds.

I prefer to wear the Lyon's Pride Armour. Helps me get into the game more, and feel kinda proud. XD
I agree, though. Plasma weapons are the best. o.o I've still not even used mine, yet. I'm saving up as many Micro Fusion Cells as possible. During the Take it Back! mission, however, I managed to stockpile quite a lot, not to mention repair my Plasma Rifle to full. XD

I wish there was like a Tesla helmet for the BoS, giving the same boosts as the Tesla Armour (to energy, anyway).

[Ruben Bernal]

The Enclave is against other species, not races.

It is morally reprehensible to attempt genocide against any group of living creatures, especially sentient ones. Race, species, religion, it doesn't matter: "Because they're different from us" is never an excuse to commit crimes against them.

In all three Fallout games, it becomes abundantly clear that ghouls and the less-obviously-mutated inhabitants of the wasteland are intelligent, vital people, who may make good or bad choices and live out their lives, just as people always do.

Attempting to exterminate these people in pursuit of any goal is plain and simply monstrous and evil. Personally, if what happened in the Fallout universe really happened on our planet, I'd rather watch the human race die off due to radiation and mutation, than see it live on because a group was willing to murder almost everyone else. If that's what our race is willing to stoop to for survival's sake, we do not deserve survival. (But for the record, I believe there are many other alternatives in the Fallout universe to saving the human race other than genocide.)

Honestly, would you let a person with genes coding for an extra leg or something like that mate?

The majority of the free world these days believes in liberty and human rights. There's no "let" about it; it is their right to choose to mate. It isn't your right or my right to regulate their mating habits. Currently in our society, people with bad eyesight, dwarfism, mental handicaps, and all sorts of other "faulty gene coding" are allowed to mate.

Eugenics (you should probably Google that) is scientifically sound and logical, but morally abhorrent.

[Bryanna Vacchiano]

It is morally reprehensible to attempt genocide against any group of living creatures, especially sentient ones. Race, species, religion, it doesn't matter: "Because they're different from us" is never an excuse to commit crimes against them.

In all three Fallout games, it becomes abundantly clear that ghouls and the less-obviously-mutated inhabitants of the wasteland are intelligent, vital people, who may make good or bad choices and live out their lives, just as people always do.

Attempting to exterminate these people in pursuit of any goal is plain and simply monstrous and evil. Personally, if what happened in the Fallout universe really happened on our planet, I'd rather watch the human race die off due to radiation and mutation, than see it live on because a group was willing to murder almost everyone else. If that's what our race is willing to stoop to for survival's sake, we do not deserve survival. (But for the record, I believe there are many other alternatives in the Fallout universe to saving the human race other than genocide.)

The majority of the free world these days believes in liberty and human rights. There's no "let" about it; it is their right to choose to mate. It isn't your right or my right to regulate their mating habits. Currently in our society, people with bad eyesight, dwarfism, mental handicaps, and all sorts of other "faulty gene coding" are allowed to mate.

Eugenics (you should probably Google that) is scientifically sound and logical, but morally abhorrent.

:clap: Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Alister Scott]

I should add that, in the context of the game and while using your imagination, there's nothing wrong with stepping into the role of a genocidal bad guy. It's fun to be bad while you're playing pretend. Nazis are pretty cool when they play a role in movies and video games, for example; sometimes you can even play one as the main character (or an entire side in a RTS). It can be enjoyable and mentally healthy to explore your own dark side, something every person has.

When having a discussion about the true moral nature of these fictional organizations, however, you must separate fact from fiction. There's no excusing genocide in a real-world sense, even if it's just a hypothetical scenario (fictional world, fictional characters, fictional victims).

[Katharine Newton]

I like BoS better becasue Im the noble guy and in fallout 3 there the good guys.

[oliver klosoff]

I should add that, in the context of the game and while using your imagination, there's nothing wrong with stepping into the role of a genocidal bad guy. It's fun to be bad while you're playing pretend. Nazis are pretty cool when they play a role in movies and video games, for example; sometimes you can even play one as the main character (or an entire side in a RTS). It can be enjoyable and mentally healthy to explore your own dark side, something every person has.

When having a discussion about the true moral nature of these fictional organizations, however, you must separate fact from fiction. There's no excusing genocide in a real-world sense, even if it's just a hypothetical scenario (fictional world, fictional characters, fictional victims).

*flame removed. Do not do that. :nono:*


I still stand by the Enclaves side real life or not.

If I were an abomination, a ghoul, or a mutated wastelander, I wouldn't live with myself. Knowing that I am a walking abomination is only incentive to the eventual happening of self-disposal. The only regret I think I have with the Enclave is not letting the wastelanders and mutants shoot themselves. It takes away the bloodshed and provides a more settling finish to a very real problem.

If I had to choose between having humans mutate into three armed monstrosities with warts and cancerous growths all around their bodies just so we can cope with the bad genes and good ones. The no.

I would rather watch the mass genocide of a million irradiated puppies , in this case, mutants, before I see my future with them. I would never allow humanity that fate. We were evolved into our form and we will not corrupt it so that one man out of the few who TRULY believe what you say, can end us. Three legged , one eyed, irradiated wart, blister faced , mutants are not tolerable.

And even the natural wastelander with a bit of FEV, airborne, and so much as harmless in its current state, will have reprocussions.

Nazism and Enclavism is very different.


1. Mass extermination of a different religious culture for political gain

2. Mass extermniation of mutants for the continued survival of the REAL humanity.


I think I take pick two.



Either a bullet to the head or a your officer has had enough said.



The future of a generation is worth more than the present, for our childrens children would suffer for a simple mindset of empathy during a time when nuclear fallout can corrupt anything in its path. Permitting a mutant to mate with a pure human would simply mean having our children suffer the fate of degeneracy. We would evolve into a state of constant warring and savagrey , our minds degenerating with the mutations permeating inside of us, rotting our insides, changing us gentically. The mutations are playing god on our body.


That the simple fact to allow a mutant to live is a crime against the ensured survival of true humanity is a crime enough.


Say what you will. My honest to god opinion has been shared.

[Add Me]

You know, what I notice about a lot of the people that seem to love the Enclave, is the fact they don't value human life, they have purist ideas of what it means to be human and they seem intent on irradicating mutations that in part, are the Enclaves fault in the first place. Oh and Enclave Radio, killing those of a different religion for political gain and killing for your twisted belief that humans need to be pure, are identical in all but one thing, the final desired outcome. They will always fail in the end, because the majority will always oppose. The Enclave is hate, they hate all thats different, even if you cant see it. They are as bad as every single racist is in the real world.

[Alexx Peace]

One of my favorite novels is Richard Matheson's "I am Legend", not to be confused with the atrocious adaptations that were made for movies. In this book a worldwide bacteria effectively altered the entire human race into beings most closely resembling vampires. Robert Neville, the only human in the entire planet that was not altered spends his days and nights hunting/killing these creatures indiscriminately as well as brutally/fatally experimenting on them trying to find a "cure" and revert things back to the way things were. What you learn is that there are 2 types of vampires, the feral types that behave like monsters (Though they are very cunning) and another kind which have learnt to adapt to their new existence and create a brand new society.

Neville killed both types without second thought as to him there wasn't any distinction between the 2 types and all he ever could see is that for humanity to be humanity they had to return to being like we all are here in reality (Yeah cause we're really so great as we are now huh?). After he is captured, he is put on trial for his indiscrimnate murdering of those that were not hostile or feral, but nonetheless killed because to him were the same as the others. The story here is that Neville, who you follow through the story and identify with and root for, is not the hero he thought himself to be or the savior of humanity he wished to become but in fact himself the real monster; he is a legend because he becomes the boogey man in the nightmares of all the children of what has now become humanity.

I find that what happened to humanity in Fallout is synonymous with what happened in "I am Legend" and to a degree, I find the Enclave comparable to Neville. Whatever existence humanity has to look forward to in the post apocalyptic future, and the potentially rebuilt future that follows, humans themselves are irrevocably changed and adapted to this new world. The Enclave meanwhile says "if you're not like me you're a monster and must be destroyed at all costs because I want things the way they were", paraphrasing something similar to what Neville thought, mixed in with a large dose of Nazi-like fascism, philosophy and extremism.

In layman's terms the Enclave are a-holes!

My two caps... :hehe:

[Louise Andrew]

The story here is that Neville, who you follow through the story and identify with and root for, is not the hero he thought himself to be or the savior of humanity he wished to become but in fact himself the real monster; he is a legend because he becomes the boogey man in the nightmares of all the children of what has now become humanity.

Coincidentally enough during one of the Fallout 2 endings the "President" becomes a boogey man to the children of the wasteland.

[Rhi Edwards]

One of my favorite novels is Richard Matheson's "I am Legend", not to be confused with the atrocious adaptations that were made for movies. In this book a worldwide bacteria effectively altered the entire human race into beings most closely resembling vampires. Robert Neville, the only human in the entire planet that was not altered spends his days and nights hunting/killing these creatures indiscriminately as well as brutally/fatally experimenting on them trying to find a "cure" and revert things back to the way things were. What you learn is that there are 2 types of vampires, the feral types that behave like monsters (Though they are very cunning) and another kind which have learnt to adapt to their new existence and create a brand new society.

Neville killed both types without second thought as to him there wasn't any distinction between the 2 types and all he ever could see is that for humanity to be humanity they had to return to being like we all are here in reality (Yeah cause we're really so great as we are now huh?). After he is captured, he is put on trial for his indiscrimnate murdering of those that were not hostile or feral, but nonetheless killed because to him were the same as the others. The story here is that Neville, who you follow through the story and identify with and root for, is not the hero he thought himself to be or the savior of humanity he wished to become but in fact himself the real monster; he is a legend because he becomes the boogey man in the nightmares of all the children of what has now become humanity.

I find that what happened to humanity in Fallout is synonymous with what happened in "I am Legend" and to a degree, I find the Enclave comparable to Neville. Whatever existence humanity has to look forward to in the post apocalyptic future, and the potentially rebuilt future that follows, humans themselves are irrevocably changed and adapted to this new world. The Enclave meanwhile says "if you're not like me you're a monster and must be destroyed at all costs because I want things the way they were", paraphrasing something similar to what Neville thought, mixed in with a large dose of Nazi-like fascism, philosophy and extremism.

In layman's terms the Enclave are a-holes!

My two caps... :hehe:

You even think of telling me that a society in a fallout situation should be the new survivors of its day? There will always be pure humans to create. And considering the technology at both the Enclaves and BOS's disposal, they could clone the survivors. If they lack one marriage to repopulate, they clone.

I refuse to believe you. The novel sounds good though.



I want to say only this.


For the future.


Not for today or yesterday.

[Jamie Lee]

A couple of posts that quoted flame/flamebait were removed. Please report flames and flamebait and do not quote them or respond to it.

[Alan Cutler]

You even think of telling me that a society in a fallout situation should be the new survivors of its day? There will always be pure humans to create. And considering the technology at both the Enclaves and BOS's disposal, they could clone the survivors. If they lack one marriage to repopulate, they clone.

I refuse to believe you. The novel sounds good though.



I want to say only this.


For the future.


Not for today or yesterday.

You really believe that, don't you?

[Krystal Wilson]

The idea that you could continually clone yourself has enough science behind it to prove that only works for a few generations, by then even the clones would be radioactive. All clones would eventually degrade until cloning was impossible.

I would also like to point out that normal or pure humans is not determined by you or me, its determined by the masses and mass belief. If your the only sane person in a room full of insane people by our standards, what makes you think your the only sane person there? The majority can easily declare you insane because your different. The future of humanity in the case of a Fallout-like future, is determined by the masses, not the few.

[Stephy Beck]

You even think of telling me that a society in a fallout situation should be the new survivors of its day? There will always be pure humans to create. And considering the technology at both the Enclaves and BOS's disposal, they could clone the survivors. If they lack one marriage to repopulate, they clone.

I refuse to believe you. The novel sounds good though.



I want to say only this.


For the future.


Not for today or yesterday.

You sound like you actually believe in what the Enclave is doing despite the fact that Black Isle and Bethesda both made it quite clear that the Enclave is very evil. I find it amazing, and disturbing how so many people can actually defend such a one dimensional faction of lunatics and murderers.

[Laurenn Doylee]

Bethesda makes it clear they are evil because they were too lazy to make them morally gray instead of black. Same for BoS. BoS in the first game were douchebags. They send you to a heavily irradiated hole in order to join them. I don't see why every developer excluding Black Isle thinks the BoS is awesome and good.

[cassy]

Bethesda makes it clear they are evil because they were too lazy to make them morally gray instead of black. Same for BoS. BoS in the first game were douchebags. They send you to a heavily irradiated hole in order to join them. I don't see why every developer excluding Black Isle thinks the BoS is awesome and good.

The Enclave were evil in Fallout 2 as well.

[Jeneene Hunte]

The Enclave were evil in Fallout 2 as well.

I think the Bethesda hate is clouding his/her mind.

[Rhiannon Jones]

Ah crap! Just realized how their leaders were all corrupt pigs, but they themselves didn't have minds of their own!... Their justs grunts to the big man, like us Americans are today!

People seem to use this sentiment as if it's so terrible. Some people are grunts. It keeps civilization moving. It's not just America (self-hating American is new and original idea, btw), it's the world over. And sure, some are born into the role of grunt, and some are born into the role of big man, but it only takes a sharp mind with some business savvy to be a big man, so don't cry and moan about how you are doomed to grunt status forever, because that's BS.

[Nicholas C]

People seem to use this sentiment as if it's so terrible. Some people are grunts. It keeps civilization moving. It's not just America (self-hating American is new and original idea, btw), it's the world over. And sure, some are born into the role of grunt, and some are born into the role of big man, but it only takes a sharp mind with some business savvy to be a big man, so don't cry and moan about how you are doomed to grunt status forever, because that's BS.

Like the song says: You've got to serve somebody. Even the most corrupt strong man can be brought down by the lowest person with a brick.

[Minako]

Evil is a debateable word, as has been proven. I don't get how you can scream evil in a post nuclear world but whatever.. were all entitled to our own opinion.

[Sudah mati ini Keparat]

In my perspective at least anyone or any group that want to arbitrarily commit genocide of entire species when it isn't in an act ofself defense (Excepting like say situations with creatures such as the xenomorphs from Aliens who do nothing else other than killing you one way or another) pretty much classifies under the textbook definition of evil.

But hey there's no big mystery here, being the villain is "cool" remember? Plus the vast majority of villains don't actually think themselves evil, on the contrary many think they are acting for the greater good, whatever their true motivations may be...hence my example of Robert Neville.

[Bethany Watkin]

Hypothetical question...


If you could look ahead in the Fallout universe and see the future of civilization, and it ends up the constant radiation eventually causes much worse side effects that ruin humanity, and spreads to those previously "pure", would the enclave still be evil? Or would that advantage of foresight show them to have had the right idea all along, kill many to save even more?

I'm not saying the story is set up like that... again, it's a hypothetical.