What exactly causes them to be so sneaky/annoying/lying. (Fargoth was lying and sneaking, the Adoring Fan was just annoying) So I am wondering. Is there a lore reason behind the Bosmer lying/thieving and being annoying?

NOTE: Not to say all Bosmer are annoying/cunning, but I have run across quite a few that are.

Nothing specific that I am aware of. Although, I should say that while they ARE annoying, I question the accusation of dishonesty. I don't see anywhere Fargoth was clearly in the wrong. If you believe both him and the Dunmer that murdered Processus Vitellus, it is the the local office that is corrupt, and Fargoth was just trying to protect his savings from an out-of-control tax collector who went far above his mandate, and local guards who frequently extorted money from the community.

Bosmer are generally smaller and weaker than their neighbors, so it is only logical that their method for dealing with adversaries would be sneaky, rather than overt.

Really? I sided with the tax collector...

Life in Valenwood is hard, especially in border areas near Elsweyr. Being good at sneaking is a good way to stay alive. Bosmer don't really have many other natural advantages. They're physically slight compared to other races and I get the impression they don't have much material wealth. Plus there's a viscious circle, cause people don't trust Bosmer because of their lightfingered reputation, so they're less likely to employ Bosmer, so more Bosmer are likely to resort to thievery. There are lots of Bosmer NPCs who don't follow the stereotype though - just like in RL, the stereotype is actually fairly unusual.

As for annoying - I think it's just that Bethesda picked Bosmer NPCs for several annoying characters because the Bosmer are small and elfy, and then Bethesda made them male too, because all that that fits an intentionally annoying character better than if they were a hulking Orc or gorgeous blond Nord woman.

Still, you gotta admit, Bosmer ladies can be very cute.

Why are the women so much taller than the men?

I always thought it was natural selection at work. Small stature is of much advantage if your survival and success depend on stealth. Stealth is so ingrained in Bosmer culture that their scripture is the Meh Ayleidon, "Thousand Benefits of Hiding".

Females staying at home are not subject to the same selection pressure and so derive no selective advantage from being small.

And the reason I think Bosmer are so annoying is that they are, basically, savages with a thin coat of civilization whitewashed on. In order to pass current in polite society, they have to be self-consciously courteous, well spoken, and friendly. It's artificial, and it shows.

My understanding is that in the early development of Morrowind it was intended that the male Bosmer would be short, ugly, and trollish, whereas the females would be tall, graceful, and beautiful. Since everyone in Morrowind was ugly it didn't really work out as planned.

I guess Dogsbody's answer is more interesting from a lore perspective than mine is. Ah well.

Maybe they're more inclined to cannibalism, and thus get more protein.

Hawt?

Uh, if you're a vore fetishist maybe.

You're fortunate that evolution (even micro-evolution) doesn't work in the ES world remotely like it does in RL because there is a good deal that is wrong with that statement.

As for the root problem, from a design point of view, Bosmer are supposed to be closer to nature, and among just about all animals the female is larger. This makes sense since they're the ones actually creating the next generation and therefore would need a larger body to protect their young and the energy reserves to make the young in the first place. We're the ones who are wierd with a larger male.

You're wrong, actually. Microevolution does exist to some degree in TES. Just look at the Bretons. And for that matter, at all the different varieties of men and Mer, most of whom I'll remind you became distinct in the Merethic Era, long after the chaotic state of the Dawn Era had calmed down a bit.

Maybe they have an inferiority complex by the accusation their elven blood was corrupted by beastfolk, and they act out by lying and stealing.

Actually among mammals, sixual dimorphism usual favors males with larger size, wolves, lions, horses, apes etc. I think sharks, some species of bird, fish, and lizard have larger females, which has to do with mate selection, nest guarding, and other similar actions.

My biggest annoyances with the Bosmer include:

1) Their eyes, which are sometimes black, lifeless orbs and othertimes very cat-like (strange pupil dilations).
2) Blushing, blushing, always blushing. Looks like they have a skin disorder.
3) Fat lips.
4) Squeaky voices.

I hail from Daggerfall where Bosmer were basically regular elves with human skin tones, so I don't care much for any of these aesthetics.

It's their voices that's the clincher. I'm sure that even in the game other characters hate Bosmer voices, so they constantly ignore them, which drives Bosmer to thieving, lying, or just being even more annoying to get attention. For examples, see Fargoth, Gaenor, Thoronir, Maglir, Glarthir, and the Adoring Fan. All of them were constant attention-wanters. Fargoth walked around all Seyda Neen whining, Gaenor hunts you down to ask for cash so he can feel significant, Maglir also whines and is a big damn coward who joins the Blackwood for attention and cash, the Adoring Fan is the Adoring Fan, Glarthir makes up a conspiracy to feel like people actually pay attention to and care about him, and Thoronir? Well, I put Thoronir on the list simply because I just don't like him. Sure, he's my #1 source of cash 'cause he takes all loot, but... he's a Bosmer. Having to walk into that store after every quest to get rid of stuff only to hear high-pitched nasal voice greeting me every time grates on my nerves.

I like the solid black eyes and was disappointed to find that they were not included in Oblivion. It gives them a rather alien appearance.

Frankly I dislike the boring "pretty" elves that everyone else has. Give me my creepy wood elves and craggy-faced 12 pack a day voice dark elves.

they remind me of the elves from dark crystal

I imagine wars with the khajiit have made them deceptive in nature. The Bosmer are also said to have come from the same litter as the khajiit.

Khajiit and Bosmer certainly have links, the Ohmes and Ohmes-Raht breeds looking like slightly feline Bosmer. I consider Bosmer the originals with the Khajiit an offshoot brought about by Azura's tinkering.



Yes and yes. Black-eyed Bosmer rock, and generic fantasy elves aren't very interesting. Weird takes on fantasy race tropes is what makes TES cool.

Except for the Orcs. You know why they are the least played race in TES? Because they're too scrawny! They should be bigger! Warcraft set the standard to how Orcs should be and you can't really go away from that or it just becomes stupid. You can with the Elves, but not the Orcs. I say make the Orcs bigger and make their skin brown to separate them from Warcraft. They don't have too, but it would still be cool. In WOW the Orcs were changed to be a bit hunched over, so keeping TES Orcs up-right would also separate them from Warcraft. However, they still need to be bigger and bulkier. I hope they do this for Elderscrolls 5. I know this is off topic, but I'm just saying that TES don't have a good take on the Orcs right now. They do on the other races, but not the Orcs.

I was never really aware that they were the least played race.
Perhaps it's because people find Redguards to be stronger?

Looking at the art direction of WoW is not something that we want gamesas to be doing, unless we want ridiculous gigantic pauldrons and ugly fantasy stereotypes all over the place. Warcraft has never been anything but a mess of cliches anyhow.

And there's nothing suggesting that any one race of character is played more than any other.

Warcraft ripped its Orcs off Warhammer anyway.

and in a bad way. WC orcs are practically green bulky humans, with slightly larger bottom canines.