What's with the skimpy armor? : V - Skyrim

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:07 am

how about the devs just make normal armor and let the modders make all the skimpy armor and weird races they want :glare:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:44 am

Every rpg that comes along someone has to ask why thier are so many skimpy armors and every time everyone else on the planet is thinking VERY VERY LOUDLY....

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:31 am

Skimpy armor does make sense, actually, a lot more sense than armor that leaves you utterly immobile. You cannot compare the medieval ages with Tamriel. In real life, there is no such thing as magic, you only had one health point, etc.

Besides, if you have shield, you only need to protect those areas that the shield will not. In Tamriel, mobility is a lot more key than being able to deflect swings from swords. Armor in real life was only useful if it was 100% certain your enemy will fight you in melee. If not, your armor will be your death, because you will be too slow to dodge arrows, or for that matter, fireballs. Not to mention how much you travel in TES games, and how wrong it would be to see your hero permanently running in full speed with a 100 pound metal skin on his shoulders.

Skimpy armor sacrifices armor to gain mobility. What makes more sense is up to how the player plans to engage in combat.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:33 am

Skimpy armor does make sense, actually, a lot more sense than armor that leaves you utterly immobile. You cannot compare the medieval ages with Tamriel. In real life, there is no such thing as magic, you only had one health point, etc.

Besides, if you have shield, you only need to protect those areas that the shield will not. In Tamriel, mobility is a lot more key than being able to deflect swings from swords. Armor in real life was only useful if it was 100% certain your enemy will fight you in melee. If not, your armor will be your death, because you will be too slow to dodge arrows, or for that matter, fireballs. Not to mention how much you travel in TES games, and how wrong it would be to see your hero permanently running in full speed with a 100 pound metal skin on his shoulders.

Skimpy armor sacrifices armor to gain mobility. What makes more sense is up to how the player plans to engage in combat.

This. Different armor is for different styles of fighting. This type of armor seems suited to protect as much as it can, though not all, to support adventuring, not fighting in a medieval war. Roman soldiers' armor often had at least partially bare arms and legs and an unprotected back (by design to remind them to never retreat), and they DID go into large battles. Full plate mail is for someone who is riding a warhorse into battle with a jousting lance or fairly certain to encounter another person wearing the same. You can't dodge lightning bolts or scurry through dark caverns and water while wearing it. So, if the complaint is that its not realistic enough because its too skimpy, we can also have the complaint that its not realistic enough that you don't sink when swimming in the ones that aren't skimpy, or that you are running around like an Olympic sprinter in full Orcish or Daedric... There's no way to make it fully "realistic" so I say make it look good.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:12 am

The thing is that both MW and OB had realistic armor. This isn't WOW is the TES.

No, morrowind had some examples of nordic armor and so did bloodmoon. They match the ones we've seen so far in skyrim.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:12 pm

man, some of you guys will complain about anything. those are just 3 examples of early game armors and we don't even know if they're full sets. stop freaking out, not every set of armor is going to be "skimpy".

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:38 am

#1 and #2 have the same straps across the back, meaning that the straps are only part of a set of armour. The same straps have been seen in http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/93394/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/images/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-20110415033045237.html?page=mediaFull. #1 is simply wearing a crappy leather shirt under the straps while #2 has nothing underneath. in #4 you can see the remains of chain mail, implying that there has been more of it but it has rusted and broken off.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:53 am

I know full well that there's armor that covers the whole body in the game. I'm making the point that there should be no skimpy armor. Why, because it makes no sense, and don't say "in fantasy nothing makes much sense", that's not true.

P.S.
It's still not a good point.

But what if I want to have skimpy armor?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:00 am

Skimpy armor does make sense, actually, a lot more sense than armor that leaves you utterly immobile. You cannot compare the medieval ages with Tamriel. In real life, there is no such thing as magic, you only had one health point, etc.

Besides, if you have shield, you only need to protect those areas that the shield will not. In Tamriel, mobility is a lot more key than being able to deflect swings from swords. Armor in real life was only useful if it was 100% certain your enemy will fight you in melee. If not, your armor will be your death, because you will be too slow to dodge arrows, or for that matter, fireballs. Not to mention how much you travel in TES games, and how wrong it would be to see your hero permanently running in full speed with a 100 pound metal skin on his shoulders.

Skimpy armor sacrifices armor to gain mobility. What makes more sense is up to how the player plans to engage in combat.

Well said. And this is especially true when we consider the kinds of impact one's armour is expected to (or not expected to) absorb. A giant swinging a club the size of a tree? A sabertooth cat's jaws? A bear's paw? A swipe from a dragon's tail... fire breath? Medieval full plate would actually be a horrible disadvantage in the heroic, fantastical sort of personal combat (and exploration) that TES is based around.

Of course allowances for that kind of thing are made in fantasy -- in games especially -- by its very nature. But those allowances go both ways; you can't with much integrity argue that "skimpy" armour is terribly unrealistic, while dismissing the fact that a heavily armoured man would die from blunt trauma and/or catastrophic internal injuries, or simply be cooked inside his armour, against many of Skyrim's foes.

Realistically, if a 6-ton scaled monster smashes you in the chest with all its strength, rigid steel armour is no more protection than bare skin. You'd just die. And if we've already accepted that combat isn't strictly realistic -- thank goodness -- I don't see the argument against some skimpy or stylised armour designs.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:44 am

Look at all the examples of armor so far, what do you see?
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://files.g4tv.com/rimg_606x0/ImageDb3/265820_l/elder-scrolls-5-skyrim-screenshots.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.g4tv.com/images/4045/Elder-Scrolls-5-Skyrim/66971/&usg=__jBDACSkUbOsswDuXc5oQqGcpiHk=&h=341&w=606&sz=21&hl=en&start=58&zoom=1&tbnid=KGuZi1wGD-TjAM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=167&ei=g7KwTYWGOcnPgAfXjrCKDA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dskyrim%2Bscreenshots%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D979%26tbm%3Disch0%2C700&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=639&vpy=554&dur=1702&hovh=168&hovw=299&tx=161&ty=91&page=2&ndsp=60&ved=1t:429,r:23,s:58&biw=1920&bih=979
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://files.g4tv.com/rimg_606x0/ImageDb3/265817_l/elder-scrolls-5-skyrim-screenshots.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.g4tv.com/images/4045/Screenshots---Elder-Scrolls-5-Skyrim/66968/&usg=__PIydg9jAyjOkhin_jbZcvItyD8Q=&h=341&w=606&sz=21&hl=en&start=58&zoom=1&tbnid=e30bxOSilNcRzM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=164&ei=xLKwTb7GKsjKgQfm2rnvCw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dskyrim%2Bscreenshots%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D979%26tbm%3Disch0%2C1000&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=277&vpy=529&dur=496&hovh=168&hovw=299&tx=116&ty=84&page=2&ndsp=60&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:58&biw=1920&bih=979
http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/93394/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/images/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-20110415033047799.html?page=mediaFull
http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/93394/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/images/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-20110211094558377.html?page=mediaFull

I see armor thats extremely skimpy and that's not covering much. The armor on Dovahkiin doesn't even cover his back, and the one on the khajiit only covers one of his arms and just a small section of his chest. Last time I checked armor is worn for protection, not just looks. Skyrim is also a cold place to live so why is everyone running around like there going to go swimming at the local beach on a hot summer day? I actually HATE the look of the armor. I'm a history buff and the two things that I can't stand is armor that's either over the top, with random stuff jutting out of it, or armor thats basically a frying pan on a string. I hope they have more realistic armor in addition to this stuff. I'll still like the game if the armor looks like this, but I'm going to have a hard time ignoring the fact that swords are being deflected off my body by one cooking pot and a whole lot of air.

THAT'S EXCELLENT!!!THAT MEANS IF I PLAY AS A GIRL I'LL GET A BONER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:29 am

Skimpy
1. (of clothes) Short and revealing.
2. Providing or consisting of less than is needed; meager.

Look at that definition and tell me the armors not skimpy.

And to you people who keep ranting about women and modesty and stuff. This isn't about modesty, it about practicability.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:17 pm

I want some of this: http://brianbero.com/german_gothic_md.jpg

Looks perfect for those anonymous city guard, I rather see them wearing the same helmet than spotting the same face.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:33 am

Look at all the examples of armor so far, what do you see?
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://files.g4tv.com/rimg_606x0/ImageDb3/265820_l/elder-scrolls-5-skyrim-screenshots.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.g4tv.com/images/4045/Elder-Scrolls-5-Skyrim/66971/&usg=__jBDACSkUbOsswDuXc5oQqGcpiHk=&h=341&w=606&sz=21&hl=en&start=58&zoom=1&tbnid=KGuZi1wGD-TjAM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=167&ei=g7KwTYWGOcnPgAfXjrCKDA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dskyrim%2Bscreenshots%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D979%26tbm%3Disch0%2C700&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=639&vpy=554&dur=1702&hovh=168&hovw=299&tx=161&ty=91&page=2&ndsp=60&ved=1t:429,r:23,s:58&biw=1920&bih=979
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://files.g4tv.com/rimg_606x0/ImageDb3/265817_l/elder-scrolls-5-skyrim-screenshots.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.g4tv.com/images/4045/Screenshots---Elder-Scrolls-5-Skyrim/66968/&usg=__PIydg9jAyjOkhin_jbZcvItyD8Q=&h=341&w=606&sz=21&hl=en&start=58&zoom=1&tbnid=e30bxOSilNcRzM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=164&ei=xLKwTb7GKsjKgQfm2rnvCw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dskyrim%2Bscreenshots%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D979%26tbm%3Disch0%2C1000&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=277&vpy=529&dur=496&hovh=168&hovw=299&tx=116&ty=84&page=2&ndsp=60&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:58&biw=1920&bih=979
http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/93394/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/images/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-20110415033047799.html?page=mediaFull
http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/93394/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/images/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-20110211094558377.html?page=mediaFull

I see armor thats extremely skimpy and that's not covering much. The armor on Dovahkiin doesn't even cover his back, and the one on the khajiit only covers one of his arms and just a small section of his chest. Last time I checked armor is worn for protection, not just looks. Skyrim is also a cold place to live so why is everyone running around like there going to go swimming at the local beach on a hot summer day? I actually HATE the look of the armor. I'm a history buff and the two things that I can't stand is armor that's either over the top, with random stuff jutting out of it, or armor thats basically a frying pan on a string. I hope they have more realistic armor in addition to this stuff. I'll still like the game if the armor looks like this, but I'm going to have a hard time ignoring the fact that swords are being deflected off my body by one cooking pot and a whole lot of air.

You're a self proclaimed history buff who is complaining about lack of realism in a FANTASY rpg which includes magic, DRAGONS, undead, creatures from other planes of existance, and other crazy stuff....and the armor is unrealistic???? Dude reconsider your stance on this, its a fantasy game, if things look cool and play awesome who gives a crap if it works in the "real" world. I mean when I go to fight dragons I wear full armor

but the Dovakhin? well he is just awesome and doesn't need it

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:40 am

I still fail to see the skimpiness. :mellow:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:23 am

Further, as several people have pointed out - they obviously want to show off the new body model / skin textures / GIANT ROID VEINS. Kind of hard to do that if every armor in the trailer & screenshots is heavy full-body stuff.

-----

Some of the more detailed pen-and-paper RPGs I've played around with, have quite a bit of variation in armors. Rolemaster, for instance, divides each level of armor (soft leather, rigid leather, chain, plate) up into smaller categories, based on the coverage. The lowest level of "Rigid Leather", for example, is the briastplate - it just covers the torso & shoulders; down to the hips, and a bit of upper arm. Now, normally, you'd wear that over a shirt of some kind..... but that's not all that different than a bare arm, to your average sword or mace.

"Realistically" not everyone had the resources for full body armor. Or they had a high-mobility fighting style that made them not want to encumber their arms & legs.

(I keep being tempted to do a Paul Hogan, and say "That's not skimpy armor, THIS is skimpy armor!

" and link to some of the thong bikini platemail mods.... but I doubt it would add anything to the discussion.

)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:25 am

whut double post. (Read the one below)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:49 pm

I don't see a problem with the armors as they look outstanding. I can't wait to see how Daedric or Glass Looks.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:00 am

I see pretty barbaric armor... but not something i'd wear in skyrim since i'd clearly die from the cold if i'd reveal this much flesh, i'd honestly just wear fur, always fur.
The stereotype of barbarian armor comes from somewhere warmer than scandinavian countries. nobody would wear this over here (at least not in the past, but now with this whole global warming, sure.) skyrim has a mixture of both viking and barbaric armor sets i guess, i'm fine with it, it looks cool thats what it does.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:01 am

Calm down, there will be full suits. Why wouldn't there be?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:36 am

you know what? i agree.
it makes no sense to be going around with no sleeves in such a climate, and a sword would not be stopped by what is shown.

i hope they have better armors. like a thick fur armor, or a cool looking hooded leather armor.
and i think we should be able to wear clothes under armor also. that way its more plausible in such a place.

Never heard of a Baresark? Norse warrior that went into battle without clothing, let alone armour. The Scots quite recently (like 250 years ago recently) used to leave their kilts behind when they went into battle so they didn't get caught on the nettles and thorns. Although you have to wonder what else got caught on the thorns. :unsure:

It's probably a gambit to distract the opponent with an extra weapon swinging around.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:09 am

Looks perfect for those anonymous city guard, I rather see them wearing the same helmet than spotting the same face.

Yeah dude, i agree. Besides, helmets that dont show face are way more ominous looking. It totally matches the archtype of "local authority." Id say that we all see polic officers as a .... unison i guess. I think imperial guards can capture that, like you said, with similar helmets. I think assassins creed pulled that off with their armor (not making a statement that there should be armor like assassins creed, just a similar conceptual suggestion).

I do see the armor as skimpy, but it matches the theme greatly. Barbaric, fur/leather armor. It does seem they wish to show the body of the character and such. It seems theyve posted some full armor pics (the same one), but that shows that there will be armor variation, but they shouldnt show all the good stuff early. They know we love extravagant, full armor. So they should focus more on their base stuff and give us the cake-Icing later. Base stuff being, the new and improved bodies form the ugly ones in oblivion. Thats certainly a critical thing to show in their earlier screens

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:43 am

Never heard of a Baresark? Norse warrior that went into battle without clothing, let alone armour. The Scots quite recently (like 250 years ago recently) used to leave their kilts behind when they went into battle so they didn't get caught on the nettles and thorns. Although you have to wonder what else got caught on the thorns. :unsure:

It's probably a gambit to distract the opponent with an extra weapon swinging around.

They also psyched themselves up with drugs, and that probably also affected their body heat with all the adrenaline.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:23 am

I don't have to "Deal" with something that I'm buying. They should make it "Deal" with me, I'm the consumer.

Why? Your the only one who cares. Or atleast one of the few.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:11 am

What I have seen so far looks pretty good to me.

The armor in Skyrim, so far, is the best looking armor I have seen in a TES game.

Nice work, TES artists. :foodndrink:

Of course, I also appreciate the fantasy art of Luis Royo as well Boris and Julie Vallejo, among others.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:32 pm

Skimpy
1. (of clothes) Short and revealing.
2. Providing or consisting of less than is needed; meager.

Look at that definition and tell me the armors not skimpy.

And to you people who keep ranting about women and modesty and stuff. This isn't about modesty, it about practicability.

After reading the whole thread, it looks more like it's about how everything needs to be "all about you," since there are non-skimpy armors as well but you're insisting that noooooooo, the ones you don't like must be altered to suit the way you think the game should be, and what anyone else thinks is completely irrelevant. Trust me, nobody will force you to use the armors you don't like.

Why? Your the only one who cares. Or atleast one of the few.

:thumbsup: Exactly.