To me, and I'm guessing many others, the Great War seemed to trigger something similar to(though much worse than, really) the Dark Ages. With all the nuclear bombs, one can expect quite a lot of information was lost-both relevant and irrelevant. As a cannon example, in Fallout 3, the historian in Rivet City believed the war that gained the United State's independence was the Evolutionary War. All because the document's "R" could no longer be read and because there was no one around who could correct him.

So, based on that sort of concept, what kind of things do you think we would have forgotten-or at least be incorrect about-if such a situation like a worldwide nuclear apocalypse came about?

I would think that maintaining continuity of litracy could be a problem, lose reading and writing then big problems.

Everything, this sums it up nice: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Tribals

Some areas were in the dark ages like what happened to Europe after the fall of Rome others (most) went back to the stone age.

With teh amount of litterature and the lack of other entertainment I actually think that reading and writing would survive. Taught from father to son, survivor to suvivor. It would be a nessesary survival tool, checking signs, boxes, medicine for directions, effects, ect. Writing directions, instructions ect. Unless you lived in an area where there was even a lack of civilization prewar reading would still be practical. The closer to any civilization the more practical it would get.

Ofcourse alot of specialized knowledge would be lost, but even so, there would still be people who could read and at least grasp the fundamentals of blueprints.

It really depends on the level of devestation.

You have to remember Fallout is a game, surprisingly, nuclear war does not necessarily mean the end of civilisation in real life. Unless of course you nuked every single square inch of the globe there is bound to be a few island and communities that weren't nuked.

Of course we have never tested such a theory...

When trying to survive in a nuclear wasteland full of mutations and raiders, your not really going to care about spelling and grammer. Also where would you get the paper? Over generations people just forget how to read and write and fall back on to oral history.

-I would if I could pick up where the next road took me, where the next chance of water or food might be, where dangers might be found. Paper would be there. From old wallpaper, abandonend newspaper in rural outhouses, books, old magazines in stores, and even textbooks in abandoned schools. Hell there would be old ciggie packs, wrapping paper ect. Think about how extensively we make use of paper. There would be more paper than ladies handbags... And there would be more than plenty of the latter .

-Sure people would fall back to oral history... but it would take many generations. In the west we have literacy ratings going into the high 90ies. Most everyone knows how to read. People will still pick up fairytale books for their kids to read as bedtime stories if they find them. They would teach their kids to read. I know I would. I know I would instruct my kids to teach their kids.

Besides if you don't know how to read you'd be missing out on the content of fieldmanuals, books about edible plants, medicine, instructions how to operate machinery. Books would teach the urban kid that survived the bombs to stay clear of paths and roads, and be weary around water and food resources. How to utilize herbs, how to set a splint, how to make soap, how to set snares, skin deer, fish, build mantraps or a test if a given plant is edible. All knowledge that people who hunt, who has army ranger/pathfinder/SF experience or live in rural areas take for granted.

Sooner or later you would find an area or village where you were if not safe, then at least not at constant risk. A place where there was food and water. And you would start hoarding knowledge. How to keep and maintain your kit. How to fieldstrip that shotgun or bolt-action rifle. You would start looking for books on plants, survival, basic electronics, anything that would give you an edge or ensure that your kids, wife or yourself would make it. You would want to give your loved ones every possible edge.You wouldn't want them to win a darwin award when they fired a claymoremine in the wrong direction because they couldnt read "Front toward Enemy".

Could we forget reality tv? ...Please?

Yeah, we could forget a few things, like furries, rule 34 and IVchan...

Education and human rights take a train when looting and serf farming become survival tools the first 50-100 years Post-Atomic. See "A Canticle for Liebowitz" and "Threads".

soap tv how good gaming was pizza

Getting rid of pseudo celebs like paris hilton almost makes the nuclear apocalypse worthwhile.

By the time of FO2 164 years 8.2 generations people became tribals. FO1 and FO2 don't have skill books/skill megs all over the place like FO3 and New Vegas. Books as junk did not show up till FO3 same with pre-war books. Surviving takes higher then reading bed time stories to your kids. Any books that did survive the war would be used as toilet paper or to make fire with. The West has high rates of literacy because of the computers and NCR teaching people how to read and write.

Slightly off topic but "A Canticle for Liebowitz" should be required reading for any Fallout player, the book deals fully with trying to maintain literacy in a post apocalyptic world.

- I still don't see how this in anyway excludes my above post. And I am not talking about ingame trash. Books are everywhere in our society and would be even more prevalent in a conservative pre-microchip society dependent on tape. And frankly I'd use leaves, sand or stone rather than a book that could teach my kids how to hunt. Because I might not live long enough to teach them myself. Having info in hardcopy would be invaluable. Besides I haven't seen any official Lore to refute that literacy shouldn't be rather prevalent. Feel free to link it to me though. I am not omniscient.

Yes thats you. Clearly there are people like you in Fallout which explains the literacy rates in the west. It just took over a 100 years for the rate to become that high. Just you can't expect the mass of the survivors of a nuclear war to care about that. When it comes to feeding yourself, proctecting yourself the last thing many people are going to care about is "Johnny can't read." What they will care about is "Can Johnny hunt, farm, shoot and build shelter?"

I think literacy to some degree will still be pretty basic, this isn't a Canticle for Leibowitz where literacy is feared and persecuted, even a lot of the survivors regularly use Old World tech and stuff, I think being able to read or even if it is just recognising important worlds would still be pretty mandatory. Look at the Republic of Dave for example, they have all their [censored] built and if Fallout 3 was a competant game they would probably have a farm or something as well, there is only so much time in a week people can be doing survivalist stuff, there would be plenty of time to learn the basic writing.

EDIT: Christ the later it gets the worse my grammer becomes, apologies to all

I am talking more about the time from great war 2077 to around FO2 2241. FO2 has tribals and I am talking tribals, they don't read they don't write and they don't use guns. New Vegas talks about tribes being like that the ones Legion take over. It happens because reading and writing are low on what is needed for survival. You don't have time to read and write when you spend much of your time hunting and gathering and fighing off others.

People in FO3 would have even less ability to read and write because they don't farm but for Arfu. They spend their time hunting and gathering 200 year old food and fighting of raiders, slavers and super mutants.

Humans did not start reading and writing till we started settling down and farming and storing that food. It was not till then we had free time to make art.

- Listen. I am not disagreeing with the fact that "Johnny" has to learn these things. BUT. In a place and time where a pregnancy can kill you, hell a scratch can give you bloodpoisoning, or pnemonia outright kill you, wher you might have to fend of thieves/ raiders ANY edge would be valued. Because there is no guarantee that Johnny would have you or his mum, or any other relative around to teach him.Teaching the kid to read is like teaching him to fish. You stack his odds of survival. Besides you'd have to spend winter nights/rainy days where it would be absurd to till the land, chop wood, or go hunt, doing something. The early americans read the bible. Most americans in some areas will have a hard time parting with their bibles. Teaching the kid to read would be not only practical but also an excellent passtime. A morale booster.

And by stacking the survival odds of "Literate Johnny" there is a greater chance that he lives and prospers than "Illiterate Johnny". Illiterate Johnny also has a serious chance of comming across things that could adversely affect his health because he cant read. Radiated areas, landmines, warning signs. Teaching someone to hunt, build shelter, trapping, camouflage, check for edibility, fish ect is usually covered in less than a year of basic military training. Here at least. For specialized units that have to live of the land there are courses that last about 3 months from jungle to alpine. Those covers the basics. But if dad croaks in the middle of training because he got blood poisoning chopping wood, you are up [censored]e creek. Now if dad had a book or more books that had taught him.... "Literate Johnny" would stand one hell of a lot of a better chance.

I am not claiming that everyone would be sensible enough to teach their kids how to read. But It sure makes alot of sense that they should try. It makes less sense that they should abandon it.

Well of course among tribals and such literacy is uncommon if not unheard of, that is kind-of self evident, some of them like the Blackfoots couldn't even operate fire arms. Tribals have silly religions and shamans that swallow cathode ray tubes to prove their superiority. I assumed you were talking about such a period and I suppose if tribes remain really isolated in the middle of nowhere then yeah maybe they can remain culturally stagnant for a centuary and a half. Seriously though, I do think it's a little wierd that Obsidian brought the old tribes thing back in such a big way, even by Fallout, a mere 80 years, when people still had just grand-parents from before the bombs, there was factory making new guns and admitedly cult religions too but for superior to the tribals in terms of practices and goals. Maybe it's because the early one's were more urban based but the way Caesar said it "effectively set cultural progress back to zero", I think the people who made it possible for you to even know that might disagree .

I would think that maybe after a few decades or so once people settledown, I really don't see how people could devolve into such tribes, like Arroyo for example, that was founded by at least some completely literate Vault Dwellers.

Tribals in New Vegas are far more advanced then the ones of FO2. Many can read and write. They know how to use fire arms. They are tribal in the sense they still hold on to their old ways all but for the three families. They are tribal because Mr.House sees everyone as such (pre-war stuck up ). Tribes like the Black foot and the other ones caesar ran into were issolated for many generations.

I agree that the Fallout world is a lot like the Dark Ages, complete with barbarians and religious fanatics. But the BoS, in a sense, sparked a Renaissance of sorts -- trying to preserve and return to the idyllic era that was Pre-War America.

I don't believe you could really say they sparked a renaissance-they prevented very specific types of technology and knowledge from disappearing or getting in the wrong hands(as Veronica from Fallout: New Vegas stated), but sparked a renaissance? I don't think you could say they went that far, as they try as much as they possibly can to prevent anyone else having that knowledge or technology. Albeit they probably shouldn't give the kind of technology they keep, anyways. And even within their own group, their knowledge hasn't sparked much progress of their own in the field just yet, from what I know.

The Renaissance was a revival of information once lost that also resulted in significant progress-the BOS hasn't caused anything of the sort, to my knowledge.
Though I'll admit, I've only gotten the chance to play Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas, and only know some more basic/core information about the main games prior(Fallout 1 and 2) from the wiki.

Not to say your opinion's wrong or anything, I just don't see how that view works personally-based on my own knowledge.

BoS sparked the Renaissance? Maybe in FO3 but not for the West. Original BoS (western BoS) don't share Tech, they take tech. Western don't help. Factions back West picked themselves up from the mud and sparked their own "renaissance." Factions traided with one another and ideas go along with trade. Factions like Shi and NCR sparked the Renaissance back west.

As for FO3 some people already knew how to do things like Facial surgery yet some how could not grow food to feed themselves. Lone Wanderer, James and his science team sparked the Renaissance in DC. BoS just provided the muscle.