To my mind it's a big problem that the game has been developed as ESMMO while it should and is supposed to be just ESO. That'd say everything, but I guess most of you wouldn't get what I mean, so I'll have to go into some detail explaining it.Considering PVE, where are the benefits I get by a horde of people running through my game, bashing at enemies when mostly the only interaction between me and them is some chat in the corner?

Well, you could say that I just have no connection to MMO RPGs and actually you'd be right, but I think most people who have enjoyed Skyrim, Oblivion or Morrowind haven't got that much of a connection to MMOs and maybe you should just read what I have to say anyway.

I think the central issue is how the developers approached the project. They didn't see their task in creating an Elder Scrolls game in which we're able to play together with our friends but in bending over the classic and approved MMO-System to make an MMO that looks and in some measure also feels like an Elder Scrolls game. I don't want to say that ESO is a bad game, it's a good MMO, at least it collected the best ways former games in the genre headed for and matched them with the style and some mechanics from the last two Elder Scrolls titles, but I just think it could have been a better game if they'd been more creative and would have only oriented themselves towards the idea of creating a (coop-)multiplayer Elder Scrolls experience.

Well, instead of writing another few hundred words but actually turning in circles, I'll just go through some concerns I have about the MMO gameplay concept that from my point of view could be avoided with a kind of more closed ("private") system. Looking at Borderlands (and Borderlands 2) I think there totally are ways of creating a well working coop-RPG with about 4 players, maybe some more.

• Graphics and physics: I don't know much about the technical details, but from what I know, physics and graphics are easier to calculate with less players.
• Loot and world interactivity: That's one of my biggest problems. What I loved in Oblivion and Skyrim was that when I killed an enemy, I could take the stuff he was wearing and the weapons he was using, instead of getting a single gold coin or random gear. And even in Morrowind it was possible (without physics but who cares) to take nearly every bowl lying on some guy's shelf and sell it for some gold.
• Thievery: Instead of completely deleting thievery, I could think of some fantastic features for thievery in a multiplayer game. Just imagine Skyrim-like thievery with additional possibilities, for example your friend using his speechcraft to sidetrack the people around, so that pickpocketing or also lock picking gets easier for you to do.
• Armor and weapon sets: Why does every MMO has to have a completely confusing amount and collocation of gear-sets? Serious question, I just don't understand why the clear structured gear types that are well known since Morrowind had to give way to this quite generic buildup of weapons and armor pieces, instead of just being expanded a bit.
• Spawning issues: There are some problems with the mob-spawn in MMOs, I think. I find it kind of unsatisfying to clear areas when mobs spawn behind me every thirty seconds, while I search in vain if I have to kill a certain mob to get a special item. In addition during the betas there was a quite common bug that caused bosses not to spawn, so that like dozens of players waited at the location and nothing happened.
• Zones: I think it's annoying that we could actually access several provinces and in that way enjoy a very diversified environment, but often can't proceed because the higher level mobs are way too strong, although Skyrim brought the dynamic environmental leveling to perfection. And when you've "completed" an area, you just have no reason to go back, because you won't get new quests there anyway (please correct me if I'm wrong) and the mobs aren't an obstacle anymore.
• Storytelling: Although the attempts to avoid that one by instancing NPCs and everything are quite good, I think it's very immersion breaking that not only me but also thousands of other players are the unique chosen heroes saving the world. It's not like I can't tell that those ten guys next to me just cleared the same village of Daedras and are talking to the same NPC as me. I think it would be way easier to just write a story about a group of heroes. In the tales told in Elder Scroll's lore it's groups of people doing the important stuff anyway.
• Buying houses: This seems to be a small issue, but I think it isn't that unimportant to have a home or at least to be able to spend the night in taverns if you want to feel like really being part of a virtual world.
• Group questing: That's the biggest problem I've got, now that I've played ESO a bunch of hours, mostly skyping with a friend of mine: when you quest together, it's not as if you'd really do anything together, but rather like doing the same things at the same time. So we don't collect six Dreugh eggs together to save a town from the Dreugh but each of us has to collect them to save the town in his parallel universe alone. That isn't good multiplayer gameplay, that is bad singleplayer gameplay with people around. And even if we did the same quests at the same time, we often lost sight of each other, because it isn't that easy to synchronize the operations (OK, maybe we're too impatient or just too dumb to stay together).
• Payment model: In my view, not only paying 15 bucks a month, but also sustaining an ingame shop, while 50-60 dollar at release could totally refinance the development (and the provision of game-servers for at least some months), could be called exaggerated. And being kind of an obstacle for the players, that might also be the reason why they originally headed for a classic MMO RPG, which other game genre would justify such a high price? It's just a very save way to go. I think the competitors aren't that strong and even SWTOR which is considered as a complete failure in the community, actually was a really big success financially.

I think the only really big advantage of an MMO is that you can find people to group with all the time, so you're not dependent on friends to buy the game and be online at the same time as you, but I think there'd also be ways to implement such a system in a "private" multiplayer game. What about certain places, for example taverns or guild halls, where you are thrown together with ten to twenty other players. There you could find groups to do specific quests, trade, share details on your maps, talk about your recent adventures (or chat in general) or also play card and board games (I think at least chess and nine men's morris would not seem out of place in Tamriel).

So, just tell me what you guys think about my concerns and ideas. We could talk about PVP later on, because for now I'm tired of writing.

This is not an MMO. It is a Co-op RPG.

Did you even read what I wrote? It totally is an MMO and never did anyone repudiate that officially.

Whats done is done. The game is being released as it stands now and they are not changing it to be anything else.

If you don't enjoy the game dont play it, its bloody hard to appeal to everyone in a market so just take the largest segment and market to that.

I know that they won't change the game in that way, I just wanted to share my thoughts on what approach I would have found more expediant. I pre ordered the game anyway and I'll give it a chance at least for the first month. I just mean, when they try to take an existing franchise into a multiplayer game, the game should appeal to the fans of the franchise, not to any other "large segment". And I don't even think that the MMO-players are the largest segment, I just think you can make way more money with an MMO than with any other game.

That is not constructive criticism, the OP. Gave his opinions on what he thought about the game. Just because you didn't like it. Doesn't mean you need to make comments like that. The OP gave some valid points, as well as some that I don't agree on. You don't need to comment on something you don't like.

Stopped reading at graphics, ESO honestly has the BEST MMORPG graphics on the market.

Not very impressive when you look at the competitors. And that's just one (and not an important) point out of many.

I did actually, an impressive wall of text.

I was simply telling you that you are wrong.

This is just silly and outrageous. TESO, on the highest settings, is the best MMO visually.

But if you think otherwise, I have to ask you this - If TESO could have better graphics, how will the game change? Let me tell you, there will be a lot of changes that would make the game very different than it is now.

Basically the way I see it is that on this specific forum there are two camps: Those who love it and everyone else.

Those who love it only post praise and everyone else has varying views of what is wrong this way or that. My experience is that those who love it are the fastest to troll anyone who posts otherwise. Some of them seem to get this idea that criticisms are an attack on their thing they love and they need to defend it. I've also seen that they don't really want to read criticism at all. Attack on site and dismiss heavily out of hand. Very rarely do I see anyone take the time to read a critique if they are in that camp.

My advice for anyone posting their thoughts is to expect that kind of hating and expect a lot of it. I personally have never read a critic to say they want the company to fail and go under as if that was a desire that they had. No most are just very disappointed.

As for the OP. Heck yes those thievery mechanics would be fun. For me the part I agree with the most is the zones. Damn boring on rails adventuring. The phasing is actually more annoying than less I find. It is used to hide the static nature of the world, but it is not a good mask.

Games that have a limited number of players, like 2-16 players turn me off, because it still feels so small and lonely. People who like MMO's like to play in a world with hundreds/thousands of other players. Even if some are not very social, just playing in the same game with hundreds/thousands of other players has a "massive" feeling that I think most players enjoy about the genre.

Your personal opinion of the graphics. I've looked at the competitors. I was not impressed at all. My personal opinion is that the graphics are rather good, actually.

I know, I don't always give that much arguments for my theses (when I did, the text would only get even longer) because I think it might seem reasonable anyway, but I still think I'm doing a better job in giving reasons than you. Maybe it would help when your responses would be longer than a few words

the amount of negative feedback ive seen in this beta in forums AND in game...... hoesntly is shocking, 90% of the QQ is just stupid "the grahpic svckzz"??? rly??? rly???? put on ultra, NO other mmo looks that good!

the only major thing i'm rly rly rly rly rly hating, is 9/10 quests (at least in Auridon) are bugged, i counted 13 quests i could not finish + the first group dungeon cannot be finished

and pvp is way to slow for leveling....apart from that its awesome.

oh and the infinite load screens into cyrodil, and the rly odd 2min wait time when in the "entering cyrodil" queue lol

It's ok, actually I like the graphics too. They're good in the way they want to be. What I really miss are the physics, that's a big step back.

@Deoxy: Maybe we're just different types of players, but I like it better to really interact with my friends (or also with strangers) and do things together than to see the other ones but actually to play along at different parallel universes, I just don't get the immersion of being in the world with them.

@jarshr: I don't wanna complain about graphics, that's not why I'd play Elder Scrolls games (hell I play Crysis 3 when I want to see some crispy graphics), I wanna complain about gameplay.

@Psymon: I think it's better to ignore them and discuss on the topics we want to discuss than talking about how we cannot talk because they're disturbing us. But of course you're totally right ;D

I agree with the OP.

I might also add, Lockpicking, Crafting & open Dungeons in this game all feel as if there was the bare minimum effort put in to implementation.

The Chests are implemented in a manner to encourage A-hats to be A-hats. 15 people crowded around a chest waiting for someone to fail the Lockpicking so they can jump on it. Great way to encourage comraderie there.

Crafting is seriously not worth the time spent vs xp earned. 6 hours for your 1st Research? I could outlevel the need for that researched item in 1/2 that time. Not too mention the difficulty/time spent in finding the matts & researchables in the first place.

I had quests in 4 different public dungeons yesterday & did not fight one single mob to reach my objectives. So many other players running around with only a few mobs spawning. I just strolled through, never once taking my staff off of my back.

Where is all the Loot? I was level 6 before I even saw my 1st recipe, for example. I was opening every container I came across. Sure did have a bag full of ingredients to make basic food & drinks. Had enough bait to fish for a year. No recipes to make anything. Barely any gear to sell. Didn't even find any useable gear worth equiping. Did find a single gold piece ehere & there. No wonder all those mobs are so angry. They are all flat broke!

Skyshards are a royal pain in the ass to find. Those "Hints" in the Journal are far from helpful. So vague, I don't even know why they are there. Found one yesterday completly by accident & only when I noticed another player run over & activate it. I was standing right next to it & never knew it was there. Apparently no one else did either, except that one player who just happened to run in to it by accident. All the players were running right by it.

For me I would like to have seen more choices and consequences. More possible with this phasing thing. That means choices and consequences in the world and not in the character development.

I would like to have seen more physics and collision. Again if phasing can make that possible for less actors to be on screen then yay. As it is now I see an overcrowded PvE world where we are sharing the same ride. I'd like to see less of them in order to get more combat that makes sense.

@Xilix69

Like the avatar and sigs

Those kind of problems exist mostly around launch and beta testing because of the huge number of players at the exact same levels. It takes a little time for things to settle down. I know it will be different with the mega server and the phasing thing, but it usually calms down after the initial first wave.

90% of what you posted is changes that would not really fit into an MMO style game. Balance issues are at play that aren't in single player or co-op games. The game is coming out in a few weeks but the devs will constantly be updating it and addressing the concerns of the players. I played WoW from day one and honestly, it took about 6 months not just for the bugs to be fixed but for the balance issues to be ironed out. Spawn rates, game mechanics, how quests work/rewards you get, all of this stuff is regularly looked at by devs. However, the majority of your concerns are probably going to stay because they are working as intended.

OP I think you have hit the nail on the head. Everything you said is correct. It is a good, perhaps even a great mmo, but it lacks many of the features that it could have had if it had been a co-op rpg, and many of those features are what make Skyrim Skyrim.

Of course, for an mmo the graphics are amazing, the immersion is top notch, many of the mechanics are some of the best you'll see in any mmo- but you are not denying that.

On your question about armor/gear- that is one of many mmo tfeatures that are designed to be time sinks. You see, most single player games are highly focused on providing great gameplay, however mmos also have to extend the playtime of the game, which is usually done by adding time sinks. ESO has done a pretty good job of hiding the grind, or making it somewhat enjoyable, but its still not as "fun" as a single player game in that respect.

I never played mmo for long at all or got into them and even though this game isn't excatly a elder scrolls online but a elder scrolls mmo I still will give it a try and I believe I will like it. This game will be enough until bethesda is finish with the sequel elder scrolls after skyrim. Also dragon age inquisition will help

Very valid points OP. I added my own two cents in the quote block.

@morguenna: Well, Psymon's theory seems to be wrong, we have found a really devoted fan (actually girl, right?) who's argumenting reasonable. The problem is that you completely misunderstood what I meant. Of course their work and decisions through development usually were good, but that's worth nothing, if the very first decision to create an MMO and not a closed multiplayer game (in my view) was wrong.

It's too late to make major changes at this point. I was surprised they even messed around with the starter islands questing less than 60 days before release.

The implementation of the TES concept is good as it will get for a while. The thing they need to fix within the next 2-3 weeks is the bugs. I have used /reloadui or relogged more than 50 times to complete quests or to 'see' npcs during this weekend beta. They can't possibly want to have millions of players doing /reloadui or worse relogging at launch.