This is just one of those incorrect statements that clearly uses no examples, because there are none.



This is another. Not seen ruins, waterfalls, villages, ponds, rivers, towers, flagpoles, stairs, roads that aren't on your map, or any of the incredible views? That's strange, as you don't seem like the sort of person who'd use fast travel.



Whilst occasionally stopping to pray, hunt, drink, or even swear at the player character?



In this game, you can walk around and not be blocked by mountains or rivers wherever you went, or an ash storm, which you couldn't do in Morrowind.

This is more opinion then anything else TBH. One person (Like me) might find most of them generic and another (Like you) might not. It's just a point where you have to agree to disagree.



There was more then what they said but I, for the most part, found the landscapes pretty but repetitive.



It does make no sense to be told too stay on the road when there are more monsters on the road then anywhere else.



Actually you could do that in Morrowind. You followed the paths like in Oblivion. If you went off the paths you could run into mountains or rivers depending on where you are. That's why they had levitation, a spell which was missing in Oblivion. Would I expect Mountains everywhere? No. Would I expect rivers everywhere? No. What I do expect is some difficulty getting across terrain. Maybe the Jerall mountains could have extremley high, hard to pass, mountains and perhaps the Nibenay could have many rivers. I don't want 100s of them but some would be nice.

Imagine the people who manned the forts back when they were functioning. "Hey George-- could you go get my helmet for me? it's in the barracks."
"The barracks? Where are they?"
"Well-- just go through that door, down the hall, down the flight of stairs, turn left, turn right, go through the big room and out the door on the left side, up the stairs, turn right, turn left, turn right, across the bridge, through the locked gate, down the hall on the left, turn right, down the stairs, turn right, turn left, up the stairs, through the locked door, down the passage on the left, down the stairs, through the barred gate, down the middle passage, across the bridge, turn right and through the locked door. You can't miss 'em."

Sorry.... I presumed that the mention of "nothing but flowers and butterflies," coming as it did on the heels of the mention of "creatures pacing back and forth on the roads" would serve to communicate that the point was that the creatures are on the roads INSTEAD OF in the wilderness. I apologize for any lack of clarity on my part.

I'm afraid I don't even understand what this means.

I'm reasonably certain that I said nothing at all about Morrowind, either good or bad, so I'm not sure what the point of that response was meant to be.

To clarify-- the "poorly implemented distant objects" of which I wrote are primarily buildings. In Oblivion, enormous buildings suddenly spring into existence in the middle of previously entirely empty valleys. One moment it's a lush, green valley with a hill gently sloping up the other side, and the next-- *BLINK*-- an enormous building suddenly appears right in the middle of it.

And that's with all the view settings cranked all the way up. That is, in my opinion, a fine example of "poorly implemented distant objects."

You appear to disagree with my assessment of some of the failings of Oblivion. That's fine-- I would expect others to disagree. That's the nature of opinions. However, I have no interest in changing your mind and certainly have no interest in getting into a fight over it, so unless you desire further clarification of some of my opinions, I think I'm done here.

Thanks for the response.

It isn't. You cannot just ignore the presence of the waterfalls, lakes, ponds, rivers, prisons, practice areas, kitchens, puzzles, traps, armouries, barracks, and other rooms that clearly have different purposes and are designed as such. There are there, and you can see them, and that is not something that you can debate. Look in the construction set if you think your computer screen is trying to make you believe me, these things are in the game, and there is at least one thing that's unique about every dungeon.



Didn't you see those things I mentioned that can be found across Cyrodiil? You can't just ignore them, either, as it is proven that they exist.



That's what the creatures do if you follow them.



It's because most players would use the roads more than the wilderness. But there are creatures in the wilderness, if you change the game so you can see for ages, you can see where they are. I'm not sure why they don't see you, but it's not as if they're not there.



Considering that this was one of the best parts of Oblivion's graphics, and was even more of a problem in Morrowind, and the fact that I've never seen it, there's not much I can say here.

There is the occasional pop-in of an Ayleid ruin or a Fort, but it's not really that bothersome. And it could propably done away completely with draw distance increasing modifications.

As for the dungeons, most of them are composed of similar pieces. That is, similar structures are repeated in many of them, like the chasm in Fyrelight cave is used in many other caves, for example Greenmead and Grayrock caves, IIRC. Also Ayleid Necropolises use a lot of similar structures, many of the Ayleid ruins have the first rooms similar to Vilverin.

Of course, these pieces are connected differently, have different enemies, traps, lighting, and miscellanious clutter in them, which makes them unique. But the only one that i consider truly unique is Sideways Cave, and only because it's half cave, half Ayleid ruin. Of course, that theme is repeated undeneath Sundercliff Watch

lol. Your point was well made. It is a shame that all dungeons (both caves and stone) share the same design build.

However Oblivion, despite it's flaws, has fantastic dungeon scale and design compared to Morrowind. And compared to any other RPG it leaves the rest for dead.

Actually, one thing I do hate is the serious lack of transport options. We have walking, horse travel, fast travel and....erm....that's it. No boats, no gliders (wait a second, did I say gliders), no carts, no teleports, nothing. Vanilla is seriously lacking any realistic ways of travel.

That's the main problem with the dungeons, really. I suppose it's why people don't see the unique features.

Yeah, but if you don't ignore the main quest, in Daggerfall it could end in 7 (? not sure about the exact #, it's been a while) different ways, depending on your actions. In Oblivion, it can only end 1 way.

Lets not forget about X-Com which most young players hasn't even delved into, Oblivion was made more for visual viewers who want to be able to see the grass move and watch the weather/sky change. Morrowind was close to a visual second, but they lacked the refined look and clear pixals.

I'm stuck in a world where ZZT was awesome and Mario was the future of gaming. Most recent games just want the looks, I really truely miss a good story with poor graphics, something like King's Quest or Space Quest. Hahahah, Those were the games.

Wait a second. I'm not trying to flame you or anything of course, that would be childish, just trying to see what you mean. And I love Oblivion, so I am not criticizing it either.

Accept the fact that Oblivion was EXTREMELY skinned down from Morrowind in gameplay terms (except for traps and game size). The Lore, Skills, Story Length, side factions, etc. were all very slim.

So will you be saying that TESV will be even MORE slim than Oblivion?!

Just throwing it out there :hehe:

I've never played Morrowind, though I'd like to. So I can't compare the two. I will say that Oblivion is one of two games I come back to over and over and over and over (the other is Dialob II). I'll stop playing for a while and out of nowhere I'll get a strong urge to play it again, I'll make a brand new character, and it's like the game is brand new again. I've discovered more on my most recent character than all of my previous ones combined, and I'm only limiting her to one guild, unlike my last characters. Part of it is I decided not to use fast travel this time and to run everywhere. It makes what I do and where I go more meaningful, I have to plan it out. Oblivion is an amazing game and insanely fun. I love it. Very few games have hooked me quite like it has.

Mods, help, of course. I don't think it would be half as fun without my CM partners mod.

Screw FFVII-2, I want my Xenogears to have a complete second disc! I hate it when Morrowind players (I am one, mind you) and Oblivion players gripe about all the talking and text in Morrowind. Subject them to all of Xenogears, namely Disc 2 so they can understand fully what 'too much text' really is.

Well;

1. The skill list continues to shrink in each coming elder scrolls... We're going into the future, with less and less being capable? It's sacrifices that i'm sure the developers deemed worthy of removal. One example: Levitation.

2. The "star" system was in morrowind as well, but it begs for attention. If the stat gains added to a "max" attribute, it would be cool... Not so useful in oblivion, because they capped the potential gains. Oh well. Download daggerfall and check out the positive/negative attributes you can choose for yourself. I believe that system should have gotten refined and re-used, because it's simply genious.

3. Sometimes with "deliver this or that", the quest giver will tell you "don't take it to so and so", but really... you don't have a choice to anyways. So it implies a fake choice upon the player.

I could go on a bit more, but this should suffice as i'm going to eat dinner now.

(By the way, I love daggerfall, morrowind, and oblivion...) If they could meld these games together i'd be in heaven.

Levitation was removed because the cities are just interior cells when you enter them. If you use the paintbrush trick, you can look over the walls and see it's just horrible unrendered blocks of graphics.

It seems as though it was designed around the idea of not having it in the first place. Either way, it's up to them what makes it in and what doesn't.

The elder scrolls series always goes through very major changes through each next installation. It's kind of dissapointing to me, because I feel like there were absolutely wonderful idea's that could have been refined to perfection, rather then not done again at all.

That's what happens when the publisher isn't breathing on the developer's necks, same thing happened with Anachronox. Ironically, that also happened to the spiritual successor of Xenogears, Xenosaga. It was supposed to be six parts, all it got was 3, but atleast it got it's story told without looking too half-assed.

On topic, after playing Oblivion for a good while, i'm starting to see these little faults in Fallout 3, that i wasn't even aware of before playing Oblivion. I'm sure the same would happen for Oblivion, if i started playing Morrowind now, and that does not bode well for TES V. Not that it's gonna stop me from buying it

Vampire's Cure for ps3 is the only probelm.

What Sojourner means is that the hate Morrowind got from disappointed Daggerfall players was at least as bad as the hate Oblivion got from disappointed Morrowind players. There's no reason to assume that will change with the next installment either.

It really has very little to do with the quality of the games. People don't like change. They want their Die Hard I and II and III and IV and V on and on into infinity, each one delivering the same thing that the last one delivered, and it's no different with video games. Most people want the same thing over and over again. We can expect that TESV will receive the same volume of whiny complaints that Morrowind received - and that Oblivion received - because its human nature to complain about change.




My hunch is that cities were designed to be in the game world. I believe that Bethesda put cities into their own world spaces in order to comply with XBox FPS requirements and that is what delayed the release of the game from 2005 to 2006. And of course once cities were in their own world spaces levitation had to be removed.

Oblivion is pretty good. Graphically, it's astonishing. Soundtrack is OK. Storyline is.... let say, it's fantasy. Don't ask too much to fantasy storyline. Gameplay is ok although it could be better. All in all, it's a good game. I will give it a 8/10.

Fallout 3 should not be compared with Oblivion. It is NOT a RPG at all. It's an extremely good FPS with some RPG elements. I am not crazy of FPS so I give it a 6/10 just for the graphic and soundtrack and the background storyline. The gameplay is really crap, levelling cap, close end game, high level become invicible king of wasteland (I can fight now quietly a behemoth with just 3 stimpacks !). Completly irrealistic. Also most quests mods are pretty useless : kills all the ghouls/mutants/raiders and come back.

No, Oblivion is a good game.

oblivion is bad cause of gameplay i mean it has a lot of content but you can finish everything fairly quick (when i say quick i mean about 200 hours) but daggerfall had lots more replay value and had an extremly long story (im only on like the second quest and ive had it 4 two months now) its just that most gamers today think grahics over gameplay most of the time, my brother hates daggerfall just cause of the grahics. But what im trying to say is why do new gamers think like that and it gets on my nerves

Basically, it's evolution. Imagine if we were to start playing Menzoberranzan again (if you remember that game). Graphics just take up more room then text and story line.

lol.. kids these days =)


edit:

Wow... speaking of Menzo... how bout Ravenloft... that game was the BEST!

Wheee, I am soooo looking forward to that someday. :ahhh:

I had lurked here for a long time after OB's release but didn't join right away, because the boards were wild with rant-y members. But it settled down and every now and again you get someone with an axe to grind. I have never had a problem with anyone criticizing a game I love as long as they are civil about it. Hate filled vitriolic rants are boring though and serve no purpose other than to try and get a rise out of people.




It may get on your nerves, but it's no more different than you hating on Oblivion for whatever reasons. And can I ask - besides other Bethesda games and the MMOs you have to subscribe to... what other games out there are giving you a minimum - minimum - of 200 hours of gameplay?

I've yet to finish this game and I've had it for years. I try not to think about all the hours my MW and OB playing would add up to.

:lol: Yup, only game I've come close to playing to death like Morrowind and Oblivion is EQ2.

It was the same way when Morrowind came out. Disenchanted Daggerfall players made me leave these forums for a couple of months during that ugly rant-filled summer of 2002. We were led to believe that Daggerfall did everything better than Morrowind. Those of us who liked Morrowind were just kiddies who only cared for shiny graphics. I still have kind of chip on my shoulder against Daggerfall to this day because of that. Suspender-and-spittoon curmudgeonism will always be with us, I guess.




I've tried to think of another game besides an Elder Scrolls game that I've played for at least 200 hours - and I couldn't come up with one. Possibly Neverwinter Nights 1, but I'm not sure. Like Sojourner EQ2 would come close for me, also Vanguard: Saga of Heroes - but of course you had to go and disallow MMOs. *fumes*

I actually haven't finished Oblivion either. Don't tell anybody but I haven't even set foot in Shivering Isles yet. And there's a ton of great quest mods I haven't done either. My free time is pretty much booked up for the next two years.

I do have some hopes that Dragon Age may excite me enough to play 200 hours but I'm not holding my breath. I love sandbox games and Dragon Age, whatever else it may have going for it, is not one.