I would add terrain variety was lacking in oblivion, Level scaling was terribly implemented, It also lacked epic items, the fact that bandits had deadric weapons/armor made NO SENSE at all, the fact i could find "modern" books in ayeleid ruins deeeep in said ruins or even septims made no sense at all, and the all might gaurds who are all knowing.

Now that up there ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^is things that are wrong WITH THE CORE GAMEPLAY of oblivion now my opinions

Insta fast travel takes one out of immersion fast travel between cities only helped but MADE NO SENSE since i did not experience my character paying for transportation services and if i were to walk only the game would become unenjoyable. It was lacking rare items in morrowind you had rare armor types: daedric, ebony, glass and so on then you had legendary things which were hard to find and when you found them you were like o hellz yes the best part is the majority of them did not involve quests in morrowind but you had to go off the beaten trail. Exploration...the compass of all knowing ruined this feature and made NO SENSE because it was never explained anywhere in the lore HOW MY character detects all of these locations WERE IS THE RPG IN THIS WTF!

Well, you look at things like combat and quest design, it *is* a better game. If you like better a more traditional setting, same thing.

Comes down to what you prioritize in a game, yeah.

your right Morrowinds was way better, Oh wait!!
im jking, but what people overlook is there is some great things that were put in Oblivion that wern't in Morrowind

I don't get it... When I look at the combat for both games I don't see how Oblivion did it better. As for the setting, I don't know the setting well enough to like or dislike it.

That's not true of us all. I played Oblivion first as well, and I like Morrowind better. :shrug:
(I liked Morrowind's combat better too ~What didn't you like about it, and why was Oblivion's better to you?)

overall playability. if you were to let a caveman play morrowind for a day, then play oblivion for a day they would say oblivion is better. people can have their bias opinions, but in a primitive sense, oblivion is much better. besides i bet you a small fraction of people that argue that morrowind is way better actually thought that in their first thirty or so hours of playing oblivion.

I played Morrowind first. To me, Oblivion is a much funner game. It's not this ridiclous running around not being able to hit crap once you fought an enemy because you ran out of fatigue. Not being able to hit a person when your close to them with a bow. The spell casting system was much more frustrating because you could fail many times. Getting to places was too slow on foot. You could barely move two steps before a cliff racer would sneak up on you. With that said, I felt the thing Morrowind did better over Oblivion, Less level scaling,non scalable loot,better atmosphere,better main, and more dungeon variety.

Its my fav game. The distant view, combat, npc AI, physics, voice acting all brought the game to a new level for me(from MW).

Really ? :huh: I kinda thought Oblivion fights were smoother, easier to handle. Hard to explain for me. Plus I don't recall having had that "sword getting through you" I got in Morrowind sometimes. More varied and realistic moves. Seamlessness between spells and weapons. Shortcuts. Better stealth, too.

Quite normal improvements for a younger game, of course. Skyrim is going to put all that to the attic.

I've only played Morrowind for forty minutes, I have a 26th level acrobat in Oblivion. (its truth).

I don't know what that means ("sword getting through you") ~You mean impaled on a sword?

That's my worry.

Oblivion only did it "better" if that's your cup of tea. A lot of people enjoyed Morrowind's combat, simply because they're RPG purists who'd rather have the dice rolls determine the outcome.

Personally, I'm fine with Oblivion style combat (although I was not fine with the balancing, but much of that comes from level scaling. Hitting a goblin 100 times is not good). The magic system, though, was definitely inferior, if only because of the restrictions placed on making spells, the high enemy hp pool, and the ridiculous mana regeneration. I felt like a machine gun.

The fact that this time around you didn't swing your weapon in a crazy series of super-fast strikes (that each look exactly the same) to have them mysteriously hit thin air instead of your opponent standing at a distance of 10 inches from you. Oblivion's combat system felt a lot more tangible and had at least some minimal tactical aspect to it.

Hit, and not harm.

Edit: Please delete. I edited this post and its some how became post #91
Network glitch?

At least in Morrowind they could have had a dodging animation for when your enemy or you missed.

I'm going to be frank: this thread is completely unnecessary, and, actually, completely off topic. What does this have to do with Skyrim, exactly? Nothing. And as for the subject at hand, Telling people "Oblivion had problems that you may have not liked, it was what brought in many fans to the series. Therefore, you shouldn't complain and try to prevent the things that were bad from being recycled into Skyrim" really doesn't get us anywhere.

I can appreciate that, and even see it as being preferable, but as Orzorn said (above), that's not everyone's 'cup of tea'.

As far as the tactical aspect goes... do you just mean parrying?

Ah, I see. I understand exactly.
Same thing happens in Fallout 3 sometimes. When an RPG is stat based, the weapon is basically for show; It doesn't matter where its pointed. I gets awkward in 3D games that give you an up close look at the fight. Lots of fellows posted complaints about missing at point blank (and that being impossible), but they didn't understand the game's reason for it. Its different in a game like Golden Axe, or most shooters where the point of the game is that bullets fly where you point the gun. In Fallout 3 :shrug: the gun is just for looks, and the PC's lack of ability with it means that its not really pointing where you think it is. (its only as close as he can manage). Its sort of the same in Morrowind. This usually lessens with skill as you develop your PC.

you're so right

Not counting bugs there is nothing wrong with Oblivion.

I don't think most people on the forums hate Oblivion but they compare it to it's predecessors. Oblivion had the better graphics and combat system but the immersion was very shallow, it felt more like a game while Morrowind felt like an actual world, it had a depth and feeling to it that Oblivion didn't have.

Oblivion was a great game in it's own respects, I still have the GOTY edition and play it every now and then. But when compared side to side with it's predecessor it's like looking at yin and yang. They both had their strong points and their weak points, and most of the fans that have been here since Arena and Daggerfall don't care much about how fancy and nice it looks but more about the story behind the game and how immersive it is. That's why most of the older forum members argue that Oblivions predecessor is better, while the newer guys who were brought into TES with Oblivion think it's the best since they weren't here in the days when it was more about immersion than looking snazzy and running around killing things.

Overall Oblivion is an amazing game, I have 150+ hours invested in it. However I've been playing Morrowind for over 5 years and have nigh on 300 hours + time spent modding. And from what I've seen it's like comparing Oreo cheesecake and cheesecake, they're both incredibly amazing however the Oreo cheesecake has something the normal cheesecake doesn't......Oreos.....this food anology has made me hungry, time to go eat

Thats what happened to Final Fantasy series , they lacked something from the older games ( and i agree to that too)
But i totally loved the game, keeped me for months withouth sttoping!

Still an aspect I don't like. My sword hits the guy, guy should be hit. I don't know, lessen the damage, make the word harder to control. Hit and yet miss, that's just plain irritating.

It would annoy me too in a shooter. I'd hate it in Brink, Halflife, Painkiller or or the like, but [to me] not being that way in an RPG really annoys.

There is a difference. In an RPG you design a character, you sit there and work out how they develop (how they 'level up'); Games like Gothic2 and Fallout 2, hold you to your choices and show you your results. It'd be a waste of time (IMO) to have a character and then pay no heed to their stats & skills. If the PC knows little of swords, then he should not be very good with them right? (An alternative is like... well imagine if Fallout 4 had every gun behave like a really wobbly sniper rifle unless the PC had maxed a gun skill). Most people wouldn't like that I think. I'd get sick watching the screen wobble for the whole game.

its completely relevant in that we are voiceing what we did and didn't like in those games and what we would like to see come back. for example in morrowind you could stagger enemies literally to their knees so for a way to improve the combat system from oblivion they could reintroduce that aspect I mean if you take a 90 lb daedric warhammer and power smash a guy and he doesn't die he should at least be brought to his knee's.......swiftly followed by a sideways smash to his face for the finisher. at least it sounds cooler than oblivions slash slash slash slash dead.

I've probably complained more than anyone. I'll admit, I've had my fun with Oblivion, and I'm looking forward to my next play-through. However, my PC copy is a heavily modded one that I used in an attempt to make OB more of what I wanted it to be. Since this is a thread about complaints, here are mine:

-My #1 complaint is this: One thing we all know ES for is it's extreme amounts of lore. Not only do we get to live in that huge world, but we get a world with years of history. Morrowind had book after book describing its culture, history, etc. In Oblivion, we were given a standard fantasy setting. Now, this could be taken in an interesting direction (like Ferelden in DA:O), but instead it was so very standard fantasy that Bethesda didn't even bother to add much new lore on Cyrodiilic culture and politics. Now, they had history nailed to some extent, but we know very little about when the towns were built or even WHY they were built. Yes, Oblivion had a lot of books as well, but what newcomers to the series fail to realize is most of the books were already in previous games. I would like more lore, and I would have liked Cyrodiil to be more culturally interesting.

-Lack of variety (IMHO) in weapons, armor, creatures, etc. The world seemed to lack diversity in... nearly everything.

-The hand-holding features. Many of these could be turned off, but the game didn't give you ANY directions to the site you were supposed to be looking for. Therefore, "Here, I will mark it on your map" was all we had to go by.

-It seemed corny to me in many places. "Why do Khajiits lick their butts?" "Open the Black Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooor" "Lady Rogbutt" The level of corniness in the Dark Brotherhood made me wince. The way Antionette Marie laughed just made me think, "She's joking, right? I'm supposed to take her as a serious psycho? She sounds like she's trying to torment her little brother."

-A lot of good vs. evil and no grey areas. The evil paths were usually what TVTropes calls "stupid evil."

Honestly, these are all more important to me than the gameplay itself. If Skyrim's cities and culture are going to be interesting like Todd said in that podcast, I fully welcome the loss of mysticism. Heck, I'm even willing to get a mod for the PC UI again if it means that. Bring on the simple-minded thief alchemy if it means that Skyrim will look less like my backyard!

Nevermind. I've got nothing to say.