Link? For anything that I have seen, only the main ship was grounded.

Some of the MWBoS did go to Colorado to fight the calculator. But that isn't to say that these would be all of the MWBoS, or that he even captured all of them, nor when that might have been.

Why would they need to make it there in two months?
Do we have any concrete evidence saying the mutants who leave V87 didn't go anywhere other than the CW?
They have almost 200 years to do so before the events of F3.

I'm certainly not saying I have all the answers.
I'm simply saying that none of this is evidence for anything.

This is part of what I'm trying to say.

Think back to Fallout 3

2258 Lone Wanderer is born at Project Purity

Time jump

2259 LW picks specal stats as a baby in the Vault

Time jump

2268 LW runs around on their 10th birthday

Time Jump

2274 LW passes G.O.A.T.

Time Jump

2277 LW escapes Vault

Now here is what we know about Fallout 4

2077 The Great War: Sole Survivor and co escape to vault

Time Jump

2277 SS talks to robot who says its been 200 year

2277 SS finds Dogmeat and garage

Time jump

22?? SS in a now armored vault suit heads toward Boston.

I think more than one time jump is entirely possible explanation for F4's apparent timeline issues, based on the content we've seen.

His follow up post indicates that's a no. ?


Right, but it isn't a direct sequel.
I can see them using that as wiggle room.

So then why force Obsidian to be beholden to it?

"We [also] talked a lot about when it should occur in the timeline. Originally, we thought that it didn't take place after Fallout 3 and that it took place between Fallout 2 and Fallout 3. When Bethesda thinks about their worlds, they always want to be pressing forward. So every game just moves the timeline forward. That's one of the things they said "No," and that's why it takes place years after Fallout 3."

Not saying they can't break their own rules. I am saying it would be hypocritical to do so.

I'm just giving you how they would justify it. Not disagreeing it would make them hypocritical.

As far as I know, nothing in F3 suggested that the super mutants from the vault there were only in DC.

EDIT: I wouldn't even be certain that Bethesda consider any non-Bethesda game to even be a canonical entry in the series (and New Vegas isn't a Bethesda game). It's not like they didn't completely ignore Fallout 1 and 2 when they made Fallout 3 or anything.

Funny they didn't force ZOS to have ESO in the fourth era then, huh?

Funny how Tactics is supposedly non-canon, and still they include it in the Fallout Anthology...

(Espexially when the Elder Scrolls Anthology did NOT include the spin-off games Redguard and Battlespire...)

Different situation as ZoS wasn't working under BGS in that case, whereas Obsidian was with NV.

Emil said the high level events were canon.

Todd's comment of "for our purposes neither Tactics or BoS happened", was probably in the same vein as his comments of "we are rebooting TES with Skyrim", in that he meant "for our purposes, nothing in Tactics matters to anything going on in Fallout 3", like how he meant "We are totally changing the gameplay of the series in Skyrim" with the "reboot" comment, instead of an actual reboot.

Well, they didn't, and made several references to Fallout 1/2 in Fo3.

Both worlds co-exist in their own sort of vacuum - what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, etc. Plus, that discussion occurred what, 6 years ago...during a period where Fallout 4 was conceptually still a wet dream in a writer's notebook.

There were barely any references to FO1/2 in FO3 (there was Harold, the BOS, Vaults, and the Enclave, and that's about it). FO3 had a completely different setting, a completely different atmosphere, a completely different gameplay style, etc. It's as much of a sequel to FO1/2 as Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel was.

That's not to say it's a bad game - I'm just pointing out that Bethesda doesn't feel beholden to anything at all that happened in previous games in a series, no matter if they were at one point cannon or not. The same can be seen in regards to Skyrim and the previous Elder Scrolls games.

Nor should they be. They can respect most of the existing lore, but they don't need to take everything that happened in Fo1/2 and have every character and event make a cameo or reference in 3. That's just blatant shoehorning and makes for a [censored] product that lacks confidence in itself.

Is it really that important? I never payed too much attention to the year.

Tim Cain disagrees.

You forget about callback via things like

-Argyle mentioning Shady Sands

-A terminal mentioning the NCR state of Maxson

-Iguana on stick

-"Tales of a Junktown Jerky Vendor" book

And many others.

What?

Yeah, but they don't just say the older games aren't canon. They just focus on telling their own story - but the references to the older games make it evident that they very much did happen in Bethesda's Fallout universe.

That's a pretty reductionist way to put it. If they started concept and pre-production work on 4 right off the heels of 3 in 09, I feel like the date would be established at somewhat the same time as the setting - or at least, the timeline would be established enough to know "this is what we want to do with Arthur Maxson, and the Brotherhood of Steel"... which very well may have been decided before Fallout 3 was even released. They aren't making everything up as they go along.

Don't recall them making the same statement for Elder Scrolls. So...no.

They're both still on the timeline, are they not? And again, if the games exist in their own vacuum, then why force Obsidian to go forward in the timeline? That's contradictory.

Development for Fallout 4 began shortly following Fallout 3's release. And New Vegas had a very short development cycle.

It is a simplistic way to put it, but stuff like that changes as drafts and iterations are made. From a design perspective, my concepts go through several iterations with input from multiple people about what they want adjusted or changed. I'm sure it's the same way in writing and TH mentioned several times that they had the setting nailed down in the beginning, and that they wanted to do Boston because they had mentioned it a few times in 3.

The point is that they're geographically so far apart, that it ultimately doesn't matter whether Fallout 4 occurs before or after FNV. Yeah, they backpedalled and decided they wanted to tell a concurrent story that didn't push the story so far forward. Honestly mate, the real crime is that they didn't give Obsidian more time to finish the game, not that they told them they wanted to keep the timeline moving forward 6-7 years ago with their fingers crossed behind their back.

Truth enough.

I don't see the appeal of a concurrent story. For one thing, it would seem to place too much emphasis on Fallout 3 if Eden/Autumn's Encalve, Vault 87 Super Mutants, or Lyons' Brotherhood start pouring over into the Commonwealth and we're seeing that as it happens in the wake of Fallout 3. Fallout 3's storyline is done, and I think Fallout 4's story would be lessened if it's essentially a direct continuation of the events of Fallout 3. To me, that would make it less its own thing and more of a glorified expansion pack, at least in terms of narrative.

Fallout 3's story is done. Fallout 4's story should be its own thing. References to the past, obviously, but still its own thing.

I liken it to a still pond, with each game being a stone thrown into the water, which causes a splash. We shouldn't be playing the ripples of a splash from 7 years ago. We should be throwing another stone.

The fact remains that Fallout 4 makes a lot more sense from a design perspective if it's set after New Vegas, not before. One of the strongest themes that we've been shown is that of progression, and of rebuilding. This is something that was features in New Vegas (and even way back in Fallout 2), but to a lesser degree. Pushing things forward a few more years would be almost expected. It also provides a lot more scope for story building and character development. I'm sure Bethesda would want to expand on at least a few of the NPCs and scenarios that they established in Fallout 3, and one or two months just isn't enough time to do this. A span of 6-8 years on the other hand would allow for a lot more creativity with regards to moving the story along.

As for the ridiculously short time frame that Obsidian were given to create an entire game, that's one aspect that we do agree on.

I don't think anybody expects the Enclave to appear in Fallout 4, and there's no reason to suspect that Lyon's Brotherhood would be present in Fallout 4 if Fallout 4 is set in 2277.

Vault 87 super mutants are already going to be present in Fallout 4 - that's the only reasonable source for super mutants on the East Coast, just like Mariposa is the only source of super mutants on the West Coast.

Fallout 1 -> 2 -> NV, were basically one giant story, just with all the boring years where nothing really happened not playable.

I don't feel that lessened any of those games in any way.

Well, we'll find out in 5 weeks.

I really hope it isn't the Lyon's Brotherhood because I have a huge bias towards their side due to the events of Fallout 3. With that said, I don't feel it will lessen the story at all. Possum says it well, but in general I don't think it's going to be a direct continuation of Fallout 3. Maybe it'll reference water being clean in the CW, or how this Giant Robot got turned into scrap because of the BoS's hubris, but I highly doubt it's gonna be about how the world is affected by the aftermath of the Enclave / BoS war.

I still don't think that the game will, or should, take place in 2277. I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said, but I think it'd be a waste to not go a few more years down the timeline, especially if Arthur Maxson is explored more, and if the years are relevant to the revolutionary war and the post-war America of the 18th century.

To me, the "boring years" are when the ripples settle down. The dust clears and everyone adjusts to the changes made. New Vegas' world is not still feeling the immediate impact of the war with the Enclave, nor was Fallout 2's world still feeling the immediate impact of the Master's plan. I don't think setting Fallout 4 right on the heels of Fallout 3's story is the same thing, as the ripples are still rippling.

I just mean that it'll be placing too much importance on Fallout 3's events if we're still tying them up in Fallout 4. If we're picking up with the Enclave and Super Mutants still being picked off by the Brotherhood with no cessation of hostilities, that would kind of mean Fallout 3 lacks a real resolution. One of my big problems with Broken Steel was how it treated the ending of the game. The whole thing with Project Purity, which was obviously the center piece of the narrative? Turns out that's not the real ending, because we still have to fight the Enclave more! If this is a direct continuation of the hostilities, that would basically be going "Guess what!? Destroying the Mobile Base didn't finish the narrative either, because we're still going on with this fight that has clearly been wrapped up twice already!"

The story of the Brotherhood's conflicts with the Super Mutants of DC and the Enclave should be over. That fight should be over. They can be reignited, as conflicts often are, but I don't think we should be playing what are essentially the dying embers of a fire from 7 years ago. I'd rather have a new fire.

I hope it isn't a direct continuation either. My fear about it being in the same timeframe is that a concurrent story prevents any real meaningful narrative building from the events of Fallout 3. I'm afraid of seeing references being something like "Yeah, things are crazy in DC right now!" rather than say, finding a traveler who talks about what the Capital Wasteland is like now that the fighting is done. With the concurrent stories, Fallout 3's events are either going to have too much impact on Fallout 4, if we are seeing something like the Brotherhood's wars spilling into the Commonwealth, or too little because it's too soon for the effects to have taken shape in DC.