First of all I took my very sweet time playing it so I coud absorb alll the nuiances it had to offer. At the moment I finished the main quest/and a side quest and I am exploring.


I just wanted to say Bravo to the people who worked on this. I thought I would find all the tribals to be backward idiots that would annoy me throughout my play time
but instead honest hearted and even funny one more than a few occasions.

As an atheist, I detest anything remotely religious, but I instead found the spiritual stuff to actually enhance the story and characters in an ironic sort of way. It's kind of realistic, if you set humanity's progress back to zero, religion makes sense.

Love the .45 pistol and Grahms armor.

On a final note, Joshua Grahm was by far the most noble and likeable character I have met in the waste land, ever.


Overall, I like this 1000x more than dead money.

I loved how there were actually smart-alecky dialogue options when the god stuff came up. I mean, I'm an athiest too, and I found the religious dialogue to be really heavy-handed, so I'm glad I was able to be my usual Darwin-loving self.

I also loved Follows-Chalk, easily one of my favourite companions ever.

Yao Guai! Ignoring how a bunch of isolated tribals came up with the same name that the Chinese Remnants in DC came up with... I'm glad they're back.

Also, who could forget the Zion National Park? That place was gorgeous. If it wasn't for everything trying to kill me, I'd never want to leave.

That's your bigoted opinion. I find it absolutely insulting.

I found all player responses to the religious dialogs in HH to be either: 1. Rude; 2. Snarky; 3. Barely tolerant. I would have chosen #4. Accepting - had it been an option.

What did I like? The canyons & rivers.

Whoah, whoah whoah. Before we start a religous flame war hmy: let me step in and say, yes, his post was inflammatory and closed-minded, but its his opinion. I too would have liked christian oriented responses, but understand why they weren't provided.

If you really think about it, being atheist or christian is valid (well, being agnostic or christian really, atheism, denying their ISNT a God vs. COULDNT be a God). So let's move on from the religious arguement please, not the place. PM me if you want to argue.

Well....I can't actually saying that I dislike a single thing! I wear Joshua Graham's armor with Desert Ranger Helmet. I use A Light in Shining Darkness, The Survivalists Rifle, and a Knife Spear from Dead Money. I haven't had this much fun Roleplaying since this released!

I really don't understand this sentiment. You don't have religion, which is perfectly fine, but why would you detest religious themes in a story? Characters are (usually) people, and often, people have some kind of spiritual belief. That makes them believable characters. Obviously, it worked for you in Honest Hearts, but I think that may be for the wrong reasons. Do you sneer at any character making mention of "God" or other deity? I'd like to better understand.

Anyway, I really enjoyed Honest Hearts for being as good as Dead Money but in a completely different way. Whereas Dead Money was more survival/horror, Honest Hearts focused on exploration and roleplay.

So, you're saying that in a world as terrible and violent as the Fallout world, people turning to god doesn't make sense?

Plus, the player's responses make sense. The Burned Man is a Phelps-level zealot, and the Sorrows have completely missed the point of Christianity (to the point where you can hardly call the Sorrows "Christian" at all). Being "barely tolerant", as you put it, is really about as tolerant as any reasonable person would get. And those responses all seem pretty neutral to me.

Joshua Graham. Memorable, likeable and bad-ass.
I wish he didn't simply vanish after the last quest I had some questions for him

I have been baptised twice,
Once in water,
once in flame.

This DLC was well worth it.

Also I get my Mafia style Thompson for casino hold-ups

We must have been playing different games, because I saw plenty of passive and accepting options. The only time my character did anything to "mock" any religious talk was when he tried to explain to Walking Cloud that the "Father in the Caves" was just a man.

Like:

The new perks. In particular, Sneering Imperialist. Granted it only has a couple of dialog options, but it fits so well for many of my characters. And it applies to most of the human enemies I go out of my way to kill as well! Fiends, Khans, junkies, tribals... Too bad it doesn't count Legion, but I can understand why it doesn't.

The survivalist and everything connected to him. His story was heartwarming and evocative and was a true masterpiece of video game writing. Especially his final note with the gun and the explanation for how the Sorrows got their name.

The landscape of Zion. I know how atrocious the gamebyro engine is for this, but somehow Obsidian was able to work around this to make an extremely breathtaking vista.

Weather. I've used mods for this for ages now, but it's real nice to see it actually happen in an official product.

The characterization of Graham and Salts-The-Earth. Graham in particular was one of the most interesting and deep characters in any Fallout game. I also liked Follows-Chalk's characterization very much.

The Colt M1911. Screw the Thompson, the Colt is one sixy gun. I don't like the unique one so much because it's not as huge, but still. I wish it had an extended mag mod though.

I really liked the atmosphere. Despite my general loathing for tribals in Fallout, I got a good sense of how these tribals came to degenerate from prewar Americans, and the atmosphere of Zion was a huge contributor to this. It really did feel like somewhere tribals could exist without being exterminated by someone more organized like NCR.

Dislike:

I thought the Caravaneers were somewhat underutilized. I'd have liked to see more of them.

Getting around kind of got tedious in the end. I think they could have done with a few more access points to the various cliffs.

Daniel didn't have as much character development as Joshua did.

I could've used a bit more non-tribal loot. Maybe another E-weap, and another suit of non-tribal armor would've been nice.

Those creepy rock paintings with the people who are really tall and have tentacles for hands. Every time it got dark out (esp when it rained), I expected the slender men/skinwalkers to come out and attack me. It was somewhat disappointing that they never did.

well, I am very "religious" if you mean I believe in a god and folllow the teachings of a certain dude with a beard. but paladin is right, anthropolically speaking, atheism became 100 times more common/possible after the scientific method came along.

in 200 AD, they had no knowledge of germs, why lightening struck, or even the fact that there was the sperm and the egg. religious or philosophical musings was all people had to go on. in fact, on a major challenges to people of faith today is finding a god that is not just a "god of the gaps" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps) (people used to think the fates or daemons or spirits caused most things, now the more science knows, the less one needs a "god" to explain natural occurrence


I found the portrayal of religious people to be very positive in the DLC...I liked what joshua said about the NCR....not enough of a "giving" attitude.

I said no such thing. I took issue with the assertion that religous people are primitive.

Regarding the portrayal of Christian belief in HH, some of it is very good! As a matter of fact, it's one of the least insulting presentations I've seen in a game (Assassin's Creed anyone?), albeit cliched.

Anyways, I'm not here to fight. Have fun in the Wasteland

I would counter that one of the positives of spirituality is that it is in fact a way of talking about reality that can make sense to both "primal" or "primitive" people, and sophisticated people.
what sort of "universal" truth would a religion have if it was not accessible even to less educated or erudite persons.

I thought they portrayed religion fine, but I'm an Atheist and even I noticed how you could only mock or remain neutral on religious answers.

Same way some religious people have problems with Harry Potter and its use of "Magic".

I personally don't mind it, as it gives me a reason to off Graham when I get a chance. Being the devious helper that I am.

Honestly didn't mind all the religious references myself. Even if I am Pagan, it was a nice portrayal of how Religion would/should/could work in the wasteland. IMO The Wasteland needs more Joshua Grahams (post Burning) and more Daniels. Society would probably progress a lot faster.

Another thing I loved about it was the landscape. Was a very nice change from the Desert and dryness that is the Mojave Wasteland.

Loved the new weapons, expecially A Light Shining in Darkness and the Compliance Regulator. Definately my two favorite weapons of the DLC. :fallout:

Overall the DLC was a blast, I'm just glad I can return whyenever I want, and the fact that Gun Runners sell the ammo for the .45 AP and the .45 Auto Submachine Gun.

Confused by this, too. Why, exactly, are you killing Graham? You get his equipment at the end of the DLC, so you know.

That's another thing I like about HH, it eliminates the need for people to go all psychopath just because they "want lewtz." Though, personally, I'd prefer players just suffered nasty consequences for offing NPCs for no reason. Like Old Lady Gibson. Can't imagine how many times she's been obliterated for her shotgun. And yet, from a purely gameplay perspective, there's little reason NOT to mangle her and take her weapon. She's in the middle of nowhere.

The rain.
The valley.
The night sky.
The atmosphere.

I'd have paid 10 bucks for the weapons alone, as a veteran and a history major, when I saw both an M1911 and a Thompson I almost died.



I have to wonder though if the introduction of the M1911 (.45 pistol) in the DLC taking place in Utah has to do with the relatively recent adoption of the M1911 as the state of Utah's official state firearm.

Some Athiests dislike religion and religious people. Just like how some Christian/etc people dislike Athiesm.

Not that hard to understand.

"Dislike" doesn't quite encompass all that is wrong with killing somebody because they quoted scripture in your presence.

Never said it was about the "lewtz".

Every character I make, is at their core, a bit my myself. As such, my own opinions and judgement go along with that.

It is of my opinion that Religion is rather pointless.(avoiding discussion so I will not go on about that any further in the public eye) I get annoyed when people try preaching to me. As such, in Honest Hearts, I am slightly annoyed by Graham. Thus my desire to kill him. Unless another chance to screw him over comes up that does not require me to kill him, but so far its not looking to be in the cards.


Other things I like about the DLC: The landscape. Not too happy with the rain.

I never meant to imply that you did say it was about the "lewtz." I only offered that Graham's stuff would be available without killing him in case that happened to be your motivator.

Graham does not try to convert you or preach. He merely explains his motivations through Christian philosophy. Why, exactly, is that worth killing him over?

Because I do not agree. Simple as that. And within the context of the game... Let me stress that. Within the context of the game, killing him is the best action as reasoning is not in the cards. I have not yet completed the DLC, so I am unsure what come up later, but that bridge will be crossed when and if it shows up.

Not to jump into a fire in joining this debate, but you mention your characters always reflect what you would do and you then stated you'd kill him because you don't agree with him. Doesn't that kind of make you a sociopath and/or psychopath?


Qin Shi Huang oppressed the Confucians.
Genghis Khan conquered the Arabs.
Joseph Stalin purged the Soviets.




Echonite executes the religious.


Too bad Don LaFontaine died, it'd have been epic to hear him narrate that.