Here's mine. One thing I've noticed is that I have particular favorites/nitpicks in Morrowinda nd Oblivion, whereas my likes about Daggerfall are general design concepts I'd really like Bethesda to return to.

Arena

+ Wide, open world.

+ Fairly interesting NPCs with their own backstories and a pretty decent "Rumors" system.

+ Quick, Diablo-esque dungeons make for quick fun.

- No skill system, lore, or factions whatsoever.

Daggerfall

+ http://uesp.net/wiki/File%3a%44F_Custom_Class_Creation.jpg

+ Numerous factions and commoner quests. I'd like some randomly generated quests in TES V just so you have more stuff to do!

+ Dark, complex dungeons which are both unnervingly ambient and require a lot of persistence and wit to survive.

+ The ability to fail. Quest deadlines, being expelled from guilds, assassins being sent after you. I feel like an actual person again!

+ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ97I2p4_YY

- Wilderness is horrendously boring compared to http://www.imperial-library.info/gallery/dagger_shot02.jpg%20%5bURL=http://www.imperial-library.info/gallery/dagger_shot03.jpg.

- Buggy gameplay (even with patches), adventuring can get repetitive.

Morrowind

+ Intricate, varied, hand-detailed world. I still find new things now and again.

+ Amazing lore, storyline, and general immersion in the world.

+ Excellent little touches, like NPCs who shield their eyes during ash/blight storms.

- Clunky gameplay in some respects - i.e. sneaking, magic, and even jumping (terrible collision on those railing posts!).

- Soundtrack I found to be fairly repetitive aside from a few exceptions (the theme, Knight's Charge, and The Road Most Travelled).

Oblivion

+ Radiant AI. It leaves much to be desired, but I was still amazed to see NPCs not standing around in one area all day!

+ Combat was vastly improved - I didn't mind Morrowind's system, but overall I enjoyed the fluid animations and ability to block voluntarily!

+ Traps that were more than fireballs exploding in your face, more manipulation of the environment such as drawbridges and metal gates.

- Incredibly boring world to explore, soulless NPCs, boring dungeons with no variety.

- The storyline. It's not that it's cliche'd, so much as its urgency and general mood could've been conveyed better - there's Daedra tearing up the countryside and you still come to the pub everyday to talk about your experiences with Mudcrabs?!

I think Dragon Age: Origins can compete with them. ES will always have a place in me that will make me want the next one that comes out though

I also think it is funny that the music gets really foreboding walking somewhere, then you look around waiting to be slashed across the back by something, then you get hit and your character says "Ow!" yet you don't know where it is from until you look down and see a mudcrab xD
Or another funny thing is when there are THREE demon filled gates (daedra shouldn't look so demonic btw, evil yes) surround Skingrad, yet the townspeople go on with their daily lives as if everything is just peachy and they say "Good day to ya neighbors". The Deadra should constantly try to assault towns and the guards should actually be doing something.

Morrowind is a fair bit better. Though I have only played through a few hours then the disc scratched
But anyways, you make pretty good points about multiple storylines. I hate it that I am forced to help the fighters guild who are mercenaries, yet care about the goodness in the world. If I am a merc, I only care about getting paid to be honest

Like:
- sandbox/non-linear quests and exploration
- lots of NPC dialog that is informative about the world around me (like in Morrowind)
- different gameplay styles for different classes
- moral ambiguity (TESIII, and the Dark Brotherhood quests in TESIV)
- creative and imaginative quest plots (TESIII, and the Dark Brotherhood quests in TESIV)
- creative and imaginative artistic style (TESIII)
- Reputation system (TESIII)
- distinct races with distinct racial abilities and playing styles (sort of TESIII)
- faction and race effects on NPC disposition and dialog (TESIII)
- modding

Dislike:
- leveling system and the attribute multipliers upon level-up -- totally ruins immersion when I have to keep track of my character's stats
- leveled quest rewards (TESIV)
- Fame/Infamy (TESIV)
- idiotic enemy AI
- lack of a believable, functioning world (civilization, economy, manufacturing, labor force, etc)
- NPC (not just faction NPC) ignorance of player actions in the world (TESIV)
- Lack of any meaningful rewards/powers as head of a faction (e.g. ordering underlings around, managing the guild/faction finances, recruitment, and/or NPC duties)
- lack of a fully fleshed out, developed, and varied marksman system that is a viable alternative to melee combat
- lack of a fully fleshed out, developed, and varied unarmed/hand-to-hand system that is a viable alternative to weapon combat
- the world and its items leveling with the player (TESIV)

I love the, I can do what I want, when ever I want. You can even play the game, without even doing the Main Quest.

The TES games have the most fully-realized worlds in gaming - worlds that you can get lost in, that give you an unprecedented level of freedom.

However, because their worlds are so well realized, the faults in those worlds stand out more than in less ambitious games.

Besides the broken stealth (see sig), I would agree with many of the others here that a lot of the problems lie in the leveling system. Common bandits gaining deadric armor, loot leveled to your character, supposedly legendary weapons that are crap if you get them at a low level, etc.

The writing is also in serious need of an upgrade. Playing Dragon Age makes me realize just how bad the writing situation is. In Dragon Age (and most Bioware games), the dialogue is one of the things you actually look forward to, often more so than the combat. You get excited about meeting new people and hearing what they have to say. It really drives the narrative.

In comparison, the dialogue in Oblivion and Fallout 3 is mostly "just passable". It's not so bad that you cringe, but it's hardly ever good.

I thought you were talking about non-player characters' (Khajiit, orcs, Nords, etc.) corpses. It is kind of stupid that you can't take the armor and clothes off of goblins, daedra, ogres and other creatures. Another thing that's annoying is when I kill a black bear, it's pelt is brown instead of black. I also don't want a small section of fur from dead animals, it would be much better if I could take the whole skin. That way I could put it down as a rug or hang it on a wall in my house. And if I did use it as a rug, it would need to be immovable so that if I kicked it, it wouldn't fly all over the place.

Exactly... The game can be much more realistic with the ability to do ANYTHING you want... One may want to kill Martin and help evil for opening the gates of oblivion... That should be possible and the player should be able to experience the consequences of a such decision(not because I want to , but knowing that you are able to do so, makes it more fun). One may want to sell the amulet of kings to an evil character for a great amount of gold, but of course when you do that there should be some other bad results... I mean just like the books you make choices while reading and it says: "go to page X" and the storyline changes according to your choices...

Meanwhile, I'm sorry for your Morrowind disc

Dislikes: Oblivion gates total waste of space and could of have been a lot more to Oblivion in there's wasn't so many. NPC get old after a while and no have no atmosphere , weather system was just for looks , Acrobatics and Athletics are nearly useless except for fatigue , no in game screen-shots and possible video recorder , hud in Oblivion I didn't like , only horses to travel fast come on ! Quests got boring after a while , money to bribe people to like you was too easy , " rare" armor found easily, character creation needs more to it , more weapons , clothing and armor and that's about it

Likes: Feel like your some one else , RPing , Large world , takes time to beat , magic is useful for the most part, Sandbox , the amount of places to explore and diversity of people , some really fun quests , combat system , lore and overall atmosphere

Why would there need to be in-game screenshots and video recorder? The only thing the screenshots could be used for in-game is to possibly turn into a painting to hang on a wall in your house. The video recorder would be useless. And of course the quests will get boring when you do them over and over again! The first few times are exciting.

If you could kill Martin or sell the Amulet of Kings, the entire storyline would change. You would have some players who would side with Mehrunes Dagon and others who would side with the Imperial Empire, affecting which side would beat the other. It would change the lore. Bethesda couldn't do that.

I've had characters that never finish the MQ. It is a natural conclusion that they will never do so, that Tamriel will be overrun by the Dagonites, and that there never will be a Champion of Cyrodiil to save the day. That is a possible "outcome" to the game just as finishing the MQ is a possible outcome. The difference is that one ending is not canon and the other is.

While I doubt that Bethesda will ever put in the opportunity to truly "play the bad guy" (unless they configure the storyline to where both official routes of the MQ reach the same inevitable conclusion), quests should not be designed around the premise that important NPCs should be essential and therefore unkillable. If it was my choice to kill Martin and therefore completely destroy the Oblivion MQ, then so be it. If it was my choice to sell off important quest items for cash, then that was my choice. In Morrowind, no NPCs are immortal, even the quest-related ones, and there are no quest items that you cannot drop or get rid of. You can kill every single MQ-relevant person in the game, and, thanks to a well-built non-NPC-reliant MQ backpath, you can still finish the MQ. It's a huge amount of work and grasping at straws, but it can be done. Naturally, Oblivion's MQ is not well-suited to a backpath, seeing as there's only one way to bring about its rather specific ending, but that doesn't mean flagging important NPCs as immortal is a good thing.

Not that lore is completely useless and all, but really, it is an obstacle to wide arrays of entertainment when it comes to this. It is a bummer that everything is set in stone in the lore before the people that play the games do it. And if you wanna stick to lore, go right ahead, no one makes you kill Martin. Personally I'd love to have killed him. He is the saviour of the world, whoo! Yet I got all his ingredients, I went into the Great Gate (which I got lost in), I had to go into Paradise and become a Dremora's prison... well you get my point.
All in all, Martin gets rescued, sits around to be guarded, then offs himself and all I get is his crappy armor?

Lore actually allows for a lot more flexibility than what most people realize. It only really prevents things that would fundamentally change the feel and workings of the world as a whole.

The whole problem with the MQ is that it is a 'good guy' quest. All the NPCs praise me as the savior of Tamriel. However, it should have been framed more as "if Dagon wins, we are all screwed." There shouldn't have been an NPC (Martin) directing everything and being the kingpin of the MQ. My character was the errand-girl, and the whole entire universe would wait for me to fetch Martin his stupid items before ramping up Daedra attacks. It all felt so staged and so timed. That's why an 'urgent doom' MQ totally doesn't fit with non-linear sandbox gameplay.

Oh, believe me, I know. :nod: The rushed "zOMG TEH WORLD'S ENDING AND WE NEED A SAVIOR" nature of Oblivion's MQ is something that I detest utterly. It's limiting to RP, it's fake, it is very scripted and reactionary and therefore artificial, and it's also morally polarizing as opposed to the desired moral convolution.

As for Martin, http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1024766&view=findpost&p=14848177

I've only played oblivion so Where do I begin?

I dont like:
Pittyful number of voice actors.
Low resolution textures.
Same body for all races.
Loud music to drain out lack of enviromental sound .
Stiff NPCs
Bad Animation.
Loading Screens.
Invisible walls.
Buggy game mechanics.
Level scaled creatures.

I do like:
Well developed lore.
large world game map.
Moddability.
A good story.

The gaming comunity should not have to fix mistakes our selves with mods. Mods is good and all but when You need to run over 100 mods to bring the game up to par when you should be looking for another game to play. I found that alot of mistakes made in Oblivion were also repeated in fallout 3.

Have to agree with this. As much as I'd like them to focus on awesome new technology and world building - don't forget the writing (!)

I don't think that there is really anything that they could do about the invisible walls that keep you from going into other provinces. Don't suggest that they open up all of the provinces for exploration either, because that is impossible. Well, there might be something that they could do about the invisible walls... Maybe they can put cliffs on some of the borders and make it possible for you to fall off and die if you go over them. And rivers swarming with slaughterfish or sharks that will kill you instantly if you enter them. At least that would be better than the annoyance of invisible walls...

Im talking about the cells. If I can see over a city wall, I should be able to jump over it. While I undestand the need for cells in Oblivion (cause the engine is a piece of crap, and theres no poly culling) I dont want to see cells in TESV.

in that case, pray for http://www.umbrasoftware.com/

"Integrations
Umbra? has been pre-integrated into Unreal Engine 3, Gamebryo, Hero Engine and BigWorld Technology Suite.
Using Umbra? with these engines is as easy as flipping a switch!"

(All Beth has to do is license it! )

I think the combat system svcks in Oblivion and Morrowind although I haven't tried the older games.

I can only speak for Morrowind and Oblivion.

Love: huge open worlds, character customization, first person gameplay and perspective (particularly that of oblivion's, though there are many improvements that need to be made), freeform nature, lore, storyline of morrowind (despite its linear nature), the foreign feel to morrowind's environments (going to balmora, vivec, aldruhn, or a dwemer ruin really makes you feel like you are a stranger in a strange land), etc.

Hate: npc interaction (it has always just felt really shallow to me when compared to other rpgs like mass effect; beth could learn alot from bioware on that front; I don't like the topic system, persuasion system, or any of it really for that matter, it needs to be more fluid), not enough choice and consequence (Oblivion had one linear main quest and Morrowind did too, albeit a much cooler one; it just seems that you don't have many choices, and the choices you do make don't have a lasting an important impact on the world), the lack of a desire for replay (I usually only replay them after I have not played them for a while, because what is the point of creating a new character if you can master every skill with one character and if the storyline and everything will remain the same no matter your actions; mods do fix this problem somewhat though), following directions in morrowind (I have the strategy guide and I still have trouble finding places), and traveling to places in morrowind by foot (I'm replaying it and I get so impatient with traveling I just bring up the console to modify my acrobatics skill to like 300 so I can just jump over everything to get there), and the environment in Oblivion (it just wasn't foreign enough; mehrunes dagon's oblivion world was unique the first one or two times, but then it just got repetitive; shivering isles went a long way to fix this problem), the lack of customization (yeah its great I can customize my character, but I want to be able to customize everything even more without mods, like houses, armor, weapons, ect; my character shouldn't look like anybody else's unless I want him too), and I think thats pretty much it.


I agree! :thumbsup:


:thumbsup: I agree. They have to bring back the expansion pack.


:facepalm: Sorry, but god I hope they never have this. I absolutely hated this in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. It just killed the miscellaneous quests for me, but luckily there were mods that removed the time limits. I have due dates at work and school. I dont want them in my games too! They just need to make the quests so they are not all about destruction is imminent. But alot of games have this problem. Like in MW1 & 2, many times they are always like 'quick, we have to hurry, or blah blah blah will happen' and nothing happens. Timed stuff belongs in fps, and maybe rts, but not in rpgs except maybe in individual sequences (not overarching quests). Unless they are mmorpgs, which I could really care less about.

EDIT: Added comments about what other people said

The things I like about the TES games are:
- Sandbox world, be anyone or anything, and do or not do whichever quests suit you, if any.
- Construction Set, to allow the purchasers the option to change the game to their liking (PC only).
- Highly evolved and mostly consistent world, with extensive lore and history.
- The potential for FAILURE (TES II and III only).
- Not your typical D&D or LoTR wannabe fantasy world (at least until OB).

Thanks to the CS, we could replace the mediocre character advancement system for the otherwise excellent set of skills and attributes. In the earlier games, the reliance on skills and attributes made improvement essential, and the difference was obvious as you went from an unskilled and untrained outcast just trying to survive to becoming a powerful force to be reckoned with.

Some of the things I hate are:
- Repetitive dialog, limited number of voices saying exactly the same things over and over.
- Lack of industry, agriculture, or "jobs" to support a civilization. Most NPCs feel "useless".
- Steady decline in the relevance of "character" stats versus "player" reactions since DF.
- Steady decline in the variety of armor, weapons, and other items since DF.
- Lack of "consequences" for choices, typically rewards you either way (TES IV especially).

The MQ for Oblivion could have been great, but was played up as a blatant "Good vs Evil" confrontation where you had no choice except follow the "good" storyline (no chance for an ambiguous "you're not what we're looking for, but you're here, so we'll make it worth your while" to allow a little RP leeway), and the pace was set by constant reminders of its urgency when it was painfully obvious that everything in the game would patiently wait for you. Worse, you ended up as an "errand boy (or girl) for the real hero. Morrowind's MQ was also "Good vs Evil", but at least the conflicting interpretations made it apparent that the "good" side had its own personal motives behind some rather "not so good" actions in the past.