With Morrowind's lycanthropy, you do get rewards; as you do the main quest as a werewolf, you get new abilities from Hircine, and being a werewolf itself has some perks (namely anonimity from crimes and improved melee capabilities (for some)). Obviously there's a limit to what you can get because the quest line is of finite length, but isn't that the same with anything else? Why play an assassin character since you can run out of assassin-related quests? Personally, I found it rather fun to use my lycanthropy to take on the various Dagoths.

The main failing of Morrowind's lycanthropy was how being discovered as a werewolf effectively stopped the game, and that it wasn't designed to be used outside of Solstheim. Vvardenfell didn't have (m)any respawning NPCs to feed on, and there wasn't a way to prevent changing for important tasks that required you to be normal. There are mods that fix that stuff, though.. ones that add respawning NPCs, the ability to prevent changes (with Hircine's Ring), and make it so being discovered as a werewolf doesn't effectively break the game (by making it regional with a time limit). Just as there are mods to change how often you change.

As I was saying, being a werewolf isn't supposed to make things easier anyway. If I was actually a werewolf, and a crowd of people witnessed e changing, I'd expect it to be "game over" for me.

Werewolf. Besides personal preferences for the mythological creature in general, I thought the Morrowind werewolves were done spectacularly.

The two animations, four legged running/standing were great. The model was unquestionably a werewolf, neither too "wolf man with hair on face" or the recent Hollywood version that is the size of an NFL lineman (ignoring the law of conservation of mass, why would transforming into an animal that is typically under 200 pounds increase your weight? You may become taller {elongation of the spine, movement of shoulder joints} but you would become more lanky and rangy)

The increased speed, strength, sneak, and jump were crazily fun to play with. Looking on your map and seeing NPCs. My only complaint was turning every night, no stat boost in human form, and a static boost when in wolf form, ie, if my character had 100 strength, he was still only 200 strength as a werewolf, not 300.


Vampires in Morrowind were unique, but unplayable. Vampires in Oblivion were watered down and poorly designed. Neither game made them easy to track down, not even wizards or members of the temple could help you find them, other than the odd quest or two. However, I like the idea of being almost totally human by day (if a little stronger) but being a monster at night. It would be cool if you had a "frenzy" where if you got too close to an NPC while transformed, you automatically attacked them, at least for your first victim of the night.

Look, all I want is for them to make a reason to become a werewolf. And I know it's not supposed to make things easier, but I'm not sure if it should make things harder. Like vampirism. It has benefits and drawbacks. Although, I did feel vampires in Oblivion were rather OP, but I mean I think it would be nice to have some sort of daytime stat bonuses when you are a werewolf. I mean surely that primal energy doesn't only exist at night. Why can't you tap into them at any time of the day to improve your human form? Maybe strength and speed bonuses. I'd think that would be fair.

you mean liked the overpowered werewolves from daggerfall? it maid playing as a vampire pointless as you get better stat boost and minimal flaws and when you get the hircine rings lycaantrophy has no flaws at all.................................................

In Bloodmoon, you got special abilities for playing through the main quest as a werewolf, that you could use in your normal form (a daily 1000 pt heal spell, and summon bonewolf). Personally I didn't really like the bonewolf summon (too undead for my tastes, and didn't really fit with the bestial hunter motif). But I think a greater or lesser power that gave you a speed and/or strength bonus (with a minor personality drain) wouldn't be all that bad.


I really liked the design and animations, too. You got some sizeable speed and agility increases, so it makes sense that you wouldn't be a hulking tank. You'd run in for a quick kill, then run off, not stand around taking on a group assult as you slowly pummeled them.

I definitely think being a werewolf should make things harder because it's a curse and a disease.

I don't understand why you would even want to become a werewolf f the only real difference is a stat boost. Why not just go to one of the temple shrines for that?

Where's the roleplaying value?

The value in roleplay comes from the enjoyment. It doesn't matter if the abilities and bonuses can be achieved a different way as long as it still feels like you have them due to you being a werewolf, and it provides an enjoyable experience. Not everyone will enjoy playing a werewolf, but some will; just like not everyone will enjoy playing a vampire, but some will. I'd hope there'd be werewolf-specific quests if they have werewolves in the next game, as well as some interactive nuances (unique dialog options and interactions with specific characters, for example, unrelated to any quest).

I believe it's been mentioned before, but the main thing I found lacking in both vampirism and lycanthropy, gameplay wise, was how utterly benign the incubation diseases were and how you were never under threat of becoming one if you weren't seeking it out. They had very little physical affect, and it was impossibly easy to know when you got infected. And when you got infected, you had three full days to down a regular old Cure Disease potion or cast a simple Cure Disease spell. So even if you were completely out of magicka with no cure disease potions when you got infected (a rarity in itself), it's almost impossible to not get yourself cured unless you specifically wanted to become one (and even then, you can still accidentally cure yourself; that happened to me once when I was going to try playing a vampire in Oblivion).

Exactly, I agree.

I was actually talking to capitalsown who asked, "what's the motivation to becoming a werewolf if it makes things so much harder and has no real day-time benefits?"

I say, "roleplaying."

Actually in MW, there is a justification on how easy it is to cure the benign stage of vampirism with the dunmer. Pretty much, those who turn are pretty much looked at with kill on sight status, as they made the conscious decision to turn. And even if they cure themselves, they're still heavily looked at with suspicion, because they made the decision to turn in the first place.

Well I mean could you acknowledge that a werewolf could possibly carry some of their primal fury and weakness into their human form? I mean I think reasonable buffs to strength and speed with reduced personality and weakness to silver as a human would be both plausible and a fair compromise. It would also make being a werewolf, in my opinion, a whole lot cooler.

That could work, but is the lack of that really the reason you hate being a werewolf?

What do you mean cool? Do you means looks-wise?

Well, it's just that for me, I put playing the game before roleplaying. Sure, it was great for roleplaying, but if you are a more casual player like me, it really got annoying. I mean I've always liked werewolves in lore, so I wanted to actually enjoy being a werewolf in the game. I never really got into the whole roleplaying thing, so it was hard for me to actually want to be a werewolf. I hope I'm explaining myself well. I guess for roleplaying, the frustration would make sense, considering it IS supposed to be a disease/curse. However, again, I've always liked the whole lore of werewolves and wanted to play in a way were I could BE a werewolf without it feeling like a crippling curse. I think that explanation is sufficient for both your questions.

It makes sense and I think that's why they made those changes to vampirism in Oblivion.

But I would argue that it is, in fact, a roleplaying game. When I play one, I'm more in the mindset of telling a story than playing a game. I think most oldschool RPGers would agree with me. I think, at least.

But that roleplaying vs. gameplay divide is the fundamental thing splitting Bethesda's nerdier fan-base. The larger population of their fans, who don't frequent the forums are all for gameplay, I'm certain. But I keep suggesting that Bethesda try multiple genres and come out with a more hardcoe, unforgiving RPG soon.

If you're looking to just play, yeah the werewolves can get annoying. But I like to pretend, at least.

So, if they balanced it to the point where there's hardly any real downsides, I'd hate being a werewolf for sure.

Wait what? Werewolves are better for roleplaying? I've always found them to be the better option for a casual player who just wants to tun on the game and kill things.

Besides, the more casual gamers should NOT be catered for in a game such as TES. Depth and lore are important, I don't care what you say.

@hamsmagoo: Well, from a roleplaying perspective, being forced to take a life every day is an enormous price to pay for minor strength and speed increases. I think it would satisfy both people looking to actually play the game by balancing out downsides and I think roleplayers would be satisfied because from a realistic perspective, being slightly stronger is not really a valid reason to kill people every day. You know what I'm saying?



I'm not a casual player... I am more casual than some people, though, because I don't really roleplay beyond the role of my character in-game. However, I care plenty about depth and lore. In fact, that's a major reason WHY I don't like roleplaying in TES, because I don't like making my own additional story. I want everything to stay canonical. Now, I'm not saying roleplaying is wrong, I just don't enjoy it in TES. That's just my opinion.

No.

If you're roleplaying, you don't set out to become a werewolf for a stat boost in the first place because your character can't even see your character sheet.

You either set out to become one because you're crazy or a daedra worshipper.

Or you become one by accident.

Either way, you pay a big price because it's a curse, for the jillionth time.

Following a pre-written story is the opposite of roleplaying.

Please reread what I said. I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm saying a small stat boost would satisfy non-roleplayers and roleplayers because the stat boost wouldn't be significant enough to actually kill someone every night. Unquantify stats into actual ability for roleplaying. I realize that roleplaying is the opposite of following a prewritten story. That's why I said I don't like roleplaying in TES because I enjoy the lore.

Ok, I have no idea what you're complaining about. Werewolves are too in depth? You don't like to roleplay, but you like to play your character's in-game role (the definition of roleplaying)? Werewolves are better for roleplayers, but you don't role play (even though you said you do)?

You don't like roleplaying because it removes depth and lore, even though it quite obviously doesn't, and even though you said you like depth, which doesn't exist, because you do in fact roleplay?

I'm utterly confused. What's your problem?

I like to hunt Werecreatures. Does that mean I'm worshipping or disrespecting Hircine? (I used McAsmod and would collect their heads.)

Vampires are too boring.




I do believe there's a mod for that.

I absolutely love how you think I'm complaining when I'm just discussing opinions with hamsmagoo... I mean did you even try to read the rest of the thread? Or did you see that and just say "Who needs context?"?

:whisper: Psst.. I've been watching this thread since before you commented.

I love the concept of vampire clans. Plus, vampires are just classic. I mean, who hasn't seen Nosferatu and thought "Holy [censored], do want."?

Vampires - as long as they don't veer too much into cacklecackle eeeeeeeevil mwa-ha-ha-ha or pathos drenched emo vamps. And any hint of a sparkle and I will kill the world dead. Fact.