- Graphics
- Combat
- AI
- Stealth
- Distant view
- Quest Journal
- World Map
- Physics

I liked the armor designs, even if there were fewer of them. The best heavy armors; Daedric, Madness, and Armor of the Crusader, looked incredible. And they all actually covered up the player's knees and elbows.

In addition to that:

No cliff racers
Faster swimming with much less aggressive slaughterfish
Graphics and draw distance
No cliff racers
Vastly improved AI, both combat and non-combat (not flawless, but vastly improved from what we had before)
Physics
No cliff racers
Waiting an hour healed you fully
Buyable houses
No cliff racers
Improved stealth and stealing system (The Ultimate Heist felt like a Thief mission)
Trespassing mechanic
No cliff racers
The guards call you scum only if you deserve it
Armor encumbers the wearer
No cliff racers
Manual blocking
Skill perks
No cliff racers

I really disagree with alot of the things people say are improvements but:

-Stealth
-Power attacks

The voice acting/physics/AI are all cool and good concepts but horribly implemented. Fortunately as we can tell from Fallout 3, they are improving these angles.

The thing I like the most about Oblivion compared to Morrowind was that OB was much easier to pick up and play, but Morrowind is so much superior when I actually sit down and put time in.

I have said this before, and I will say it again...Traps.

I also liked the improved stealth and archery, although I think that arrows should react differently to armour.

Things i liked about oblivion:

-Physics
-Graphics (prettiness not art style)
-Stealth
-Arrows that stick into things

The list for things i dont like would be much, much longer.

I beg you, enlighten me. What is the problem with Cliff Racers? I have had this argument many times, and no one has ever given me an answer that makes sense.

Sure, the implementation of Cliff Racers in Morrowind may have been off, but is that really a reason to cut flying enemies from all of the next games? I've said it before, but do you expect all AI to be compeltely removed from TESV, simply because NPC's occasionally killed eachother in Oblivion?

I used to dislike them. Until I got Martigens Monster Mod for Oblivion and Turned on Increased Increased Spawns option. Now every creature in Oblivion is as annoying as cliff racers were.
Now that I think about it they gave me a lot of experience.

What I like about Oblivion:

• New lore(especially books)
  
• Poison making
  
• Buyable houses
  
• Horses
  
• Combat/stealth/magic systems
  
• Learning by use more effectively
  
• AI
  
• the Arena
  
• More interesting Side Quests
  
• Graphics/Physics/Other technological improvements
  
• Relatively peaceful wilderness
  
• Item design, detail, and variety
  
• Can break out of Jail
  
• The Journal
  
• Fast travel
  
• Hiking
  
• Daedric realms
  
• Sigil Stones
  
• Its manual/case/map
  
• Quest arrow/marking of my destination on my map(I don't like getting lost)
  
• Stepping out of the sewers for the first time
  
• Character face creation
  
• New music
  
• Being able to sit

What else is there except how they were implemented, though? I don't think anyone would have an issue with flying enemies if they were done well, but rather, they're complaining specifically about the way it was implemented in Morrowind, which is to say, annoying noise, overly-frequent spawns, overly-slow descent (with a rather choppy animation, at least in my game, he just stutters downward even though the framerate is fine), and clipping on EVERYTHING in the environment. It's similar to people saying they would rather not see voice acting in future ES games because of a perceived poor implementation of it in Oblivion-- it doesn't matter that it could be done well, that one instance of it has soured them on the whole concept.

You answered your own question. People hate Cliffracers because they were horribly implemented in Morrowind. And until Bethesda puts a flying creature in a game that is implemented much better, then people are going to keep hating them. If TES V has Cliffracers but their AI is astounding, people will stop hating on them. But until then, people will remember how they were implemented in Morrowind and they will base their opinions on that.

People want Cliff Racers to be cut from every future TES game, and seem happy that they weren't included in Oblivion. Implementation in past games has nothing to do with what you want in the next game. There must be a problem with actual Cliff Racers, not the implementation of them, for people to want them to not be included in future games. It's an obvious fact that Bethesda are going to learn from thier mistakes and fix them. I mean, they learned that NPC's standing around all day and night wasn't the best decision, so they fixed it in Oblivion.

For example, voice acting. I'm one of the ones who don't want it. Not because it was poorly implemented in Oblivion, I mean, they could easily record better voices, but because it fills up so much disc space. And don't bother arguing with me on the topic, I'm putting across a point about Cliff Racers, it has nothing to do with it, and I'm just going to ignore you.


No, I'm sorry, I don't buy it. The implementation of Cliff Racers in Morrowind is no reason to ban them from future games. A lot of us think Bandits where poorly implemented in Oblivion. I wouldn't expect them to be cut from TESV.

:nod:

You asked why people hate cliffracers, and that's why. Not flying enemies in general, cliffracers. Because even if they were implemented beautifully in a future game, they would still be cliffracers, which is a name which will always bear the connotation of shrieking wildly while descending at a snail's pace until the very tip of its wing brushes up on a tree. Just like the Adoring Fan could hypothetically come back in Elder Scrolls V as a handsome, suave, capable companion who becomes your character's lifelong friend through your shared experiences, and 3/4 of players would still take him to the highest mountain in the game and throw him off of it. Or, just like the next Elder Scrolls game could come on multiple discs (or a single blu-ray disc, which I think would be just great) and render the storage issue moot.

What do you mean you don't buy it? What else is there to hate? People don't like them because how horrible they were in Morrowind. People will not want to see them in future games no matter how much you talk to them about poor implementation. Until they see better Cliffracers in another game, they will keep hating them. It's really that simple.

I don't see what the beef is with cliff racers. They aren't that annoying. Just seems to me like they embody the flaws of Morrowind, like the generic forest argument of Oblivion. They are symbols, which is why everyone complains about either.

No. It's still not a good enough reason. While I myself don't just want a game full of recycled creatures, I just don't think that "No Cliff Racers" is a reasonable thing you like about Oblivion when there is no problem with actual Cliff Racers. Wolves in Oblivion, for example, where horribly done. They where far worse than Cliff Racers. At least I could loose them in trees. But, I'm not going to obssess over how good TESV is if wolves aren't added.

Well them I'm through trying to give you a reason. I have no need to convince you, I don't even find Cliffracers to be the most annoying creature in the game. That honor goes to Slaughterfish, but they already implemented them better in Oblivion.

People hate Cliffracers because of a bug in Morrowind which meant they overspawned and destroyed lower levelled players. Chill out and let them hate them. Ever heard of post traumatic stress disorder? Yeah

What did I like about Oblivion?

- fully voice acted
- story was interesting, though a little anti-climatic
- more player skill based (gloomily equips flame proof jacket...)
- combat was improved from Morrowind, including archery
- facegen
- diverse NPCs with their own schedules and lives
- the environment. another contravesial topic, I know. I loved the 'alien' feel of Morrowind, but in Oblivion we had snowy mountains, swamps, grasslands, deep forests, rocky mountains, coastlines, rivers, ect. Yeah, there could've been more, but travelling over the Jerral Mountains still blows me away
- a lot of the weapon, armour and clothing models were done very well. I'm still a svcker for reliable old iron armour, but daedric, elven and dwarven looked cool

That's not my point. My point is, why would people not want them in future games? Seems pretty ridiculous to me. Oh, and most Cliff Racers spawned when you where a higher level. Anyway, I think we've all made our opinions clear, let's leave it at that.

Furry Skyrim Cliffracers and other flying creatures would be so cool.

After seeing http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/145/8/3/Cliffracer_by_cap_tan.png (no idea what's up with her outfit), I love cliffracers and they always make me laugh. I like to think she had a potion of healing on her.

^ This. ^

Yeah....wtf is up with that. Completely deserves what she got at the end by wearing that kind of outfit.

*ahem*
adding on to the list of what I liked in OB:
schedules
The slaughterfish do not make me want to nuke the entire province ( )
The idea of perks (could be better, but we got to learn how to crawl before we can walk)
Facegen
able to poison weapons
The overview map is vastly superior (and made better in FO3)
Combat AI is better

It occurs to no one to sneak past the cliffracers?

Seeing as this is a cliffracer thread now.

Holding the sneak button for extended periods of time gets really old. Plus, it's very slow, nor does everyone learn sneak.

Put something heavy on the sneak button.

And be patient. It's not that slow.

And you don't need a high sneak to get past a cliffracer. And if they do see you, run. On the off chance that they catch up, whack them with your sword.

I've been cliffracer gang banged like five times, tops, maybe. I don't get what you all are doing to agitate these cliffracers so badly.