What is your biggest issue with fallout 3 if any?, general t

Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:35 am

Cant do all the wicked stuff, like shoot kids, anymore. Stupid ESRB takes out half the fun. :nuts:
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Johnny
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:49 am

A big issue with Fallout 3 is that big flashing arrow that marks your present quest goal..
I mean, come on.. No matter if you have visited a place on a previous occasion or its in the far end of the unexplored map, it
points directly on the spot/npc you need to talk with.. They could as well had given the npc's a big question mark over the head too..

It ruins the experience of exploring new places while gathering clues to where your objective might be hiding.. If that is the case..
I remember playing FO1 & FO2 and being puzzled by some quest, spending hours searching some areas.. Or trying to find them..
Just because a game goes first person, there's no need to ruin the rpg core of it entirely, looking at it in contrast to its many other flaws..
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Josh Dagreat
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:38 pm

A big issue with Fallout 3 is that big flashing arrow that marks your present quest goal..
I mean, come on.. No matter if you have visited a place on a previous occasion or its in the far end of the unexplored map, it
points directly on the spot/npc you need to talk with.. They could as well had given the npc's a big question mark over the head too..

It ruins the experience of exploring new places while gathering clues to where your objective might be hiding.. If that is the case..
I remember playing FO1 & FO2 and being puzzled by some quest, spending hours searching some areas.. Or trying to find them..
Just because a game goes first person, there's no need to ruin the rpg core of it entirely, looking at it in contrast to its many other flaws..
I don't like it myself... but there is something to be said for having it... In FPP you are the rat in the maze, and unlike the researcher, you can't see the cheese. The challenge is changed from ISO's "How to I get from here to there?", to FPP's "Where do I need to get to?" (The pointer in this case, is like the rat's sense of smell).
In a world the size of Oblivion's (or even Fallout 3's), Its needed for some ~For most... that have to feel they are progressing. Some don't like wandering in circles hunting a moving target.

There is also something to be said of Macro vs. Micro view... You could spend an hour in First Person examining a room for a clue that might take you 3 minutes in Bird's Eye view. (Consider if the clue were the shape of the room.)
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Spooky Angel
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:41 am

I wrote this on a different forum. There's a few more reasons I had. A lot of the reasons are tiny things that add up. Overall though, I don't think Fallout really works in 1st person. It doesn't look empty enough. It's got it's strong points gameplay-wise, but doesn't capture what Fallout had.

Yes. Some people will prefer Fallout 3 because of graphics (though in my opinion Fallout 3 was artistically worse than the first two), combat, voice-overs, etc., but I don't think very many people would say that Fallout 3 has anywhere near as memorable characters, interesting locales, or good writing (I'm convinced Bethesda hires monkeys to do their writing). The places where Fallout 3 shines feel recycled from the originals. In Fallout 2, for example, San Fransisco has a ship where a bunch of people are living, with a market and all, just like Rivet City. And Rivet City does nothing to distinguish itself.

There's a few very important facets of the original Fallouts that makes it hard to dispute that they're better RPGs than 3, if not better games in general.

First is writing. Intelligence checks don't sound dumb like they do in Fallout 3. You don't return to quest givers like Lucy West and have them not care about what you've been out doing for them. Asinine sects like the Children of Atom and the Underground are less common, though they exist, especially in Fallout 2.

Second is character specialization. Fallout 3 makes attributes much less meaningful. While increasing a stat to 8 in Fallout 1 or 2 would make a big difference most of the time, they're meaningless in Fallout 3. Having a 5 Strength and Endurance melee character is much easier in Fallout 3, though I guess combat is ridiculously easy in all the games. More important is skills. Fallout 3's skills are pretty well distributed, as there are plenty of places where you can use them instead of shooting your opponent. There could be more, but the originals aren't that much better about it. However, you can train nearly every skill to a high level of proficiency, and given how fast you level in base Fallout 3, that makes the uniqueness of your character feel limited. Skill books and bobbleheads makes this even easier, as does the 100 point limit. The 2x modifier for tagging skills is supposed to help guide the specialization of skills, creating an incentive for putting points into the skill, but Bethesda removed it completely. If the game were tweaked so that 150 or 200 was the cap, skill checks were changed appropriately, attributes were made more significant, there were fewer skill books, and bobbleheads gave less points/didn't exist, this problem would be much less substantial.

Third, the game doesn't have the sense of pay-off RPGs should. Given the lack of sidequests, most of the dungeons in Fallout 3 are meaningless, expect for a skill book or bobblehead for completionists. They're much more interesting and unique than Oblivion, but there's no reason to visit them. Without a quest attached to it, it feels like you're just looting a place. NPCs and dialogue build story to the unique locales in Fallout 3, and make it feel like you're affecting the world and helping the Wasteland recover, kind of like in inFamous. To be honest, Fallout 1/2 didn't have this problem because there weren't random dungeons everywhere. But they had quests to supplement, and open world exploration wasn't their aim. Nor should it be any RPG's aim. Open world exploration lacks motive and pay-off.

Finally, we have atmosphere. The other reasons may be more substantial gameplay-wise, but this is what I find to be most important. Fallout 1/2 might not be "immersive" as modern gamers have come to define it, but i would argue they are infinitely more immersive than 3. It doesn't immerse you as a character or a role, but immerses you into a post-apocalyptic world. Fallout 3 feels like a survival horror game. Fallout 1/2 feel like a post-apocalyptic simulator. You can feel the world struggling to reconstruct itself after a nuclear war. I posted my reasoning elsewhere and copy-pasted it here.

The world made more sense. No random cults dedicated to every little thing (vampires, tree people, nuke worshipers, android liberators...). No cities built around bombs for no apparent reason. No one who wants to blow up cities cause they're bored.

People in Fallout all seemed to be working to survive, even the Raiders, gangs, and such. In Fallout 3, people seem to have the surviving deal figured out, and seem to be living rather comfortably. Part of this is definitely due to the shift to first person. We see them, their facial expressions and actions, instead of imagining them as per fallout 1/2, but it's also due to what Bethesda's making them do. There's no farmers or scavengers. Fallout's quests were largely related to dealing with threats to the city/village, getting food & water, etc. Fallout 2 broke from this a little, but mostly in respectable ways, including factional conflicts and such. Also, the voice overs are cheery, compared to the more serious tones in Fallout 1/2.

Post-Apocalyptia. In Fallout 1/2, the closest cities were tens of miles apart. And when you were in those cities, they were broken. You could feel the despair. This is again partially due to the transition to first person. Fallout 3 feels busy and cramped.

Scarcity of ammo, etc. Fallout 1/2 didn't have very difficult combat, but it wasn't easy the way Fallout 3 is. Ammo and stimpacks litter the Capitol Wasteland, so the need to save bullets and run from fights isn't there. Since the game is real time now, you can't switch mid battle to a knife to save ammo, and it becomes difficult as developers to limit ammo. However, energy cells should still be made rarer. They were rare in Fallout 1/2, but I've collected 2000+ Energy Cells and 1000+ MF Cells in Fallout 3.

Exploration was very different in Fallout 1/2. Not necessarily better, though I believe so. It was much more focused on side quests than random buildings. Some of the fights in buildings is cool, like the Super Duper Mart and Capitol Building, but the random battles lack the reward and climix of quests.

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Avril Louise
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:44 pm

There are no romances.
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Scott
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:33 pm

I wrote this on a different forum. There's a few more reasons I had. A lot of the reasons are tiny things that add up. Overall though, I don't think Fallout really works in 1st person. It doesn't look empty enough. It's got it's strong points gameplay-wise, but doesn't capture what Fallout had.

To be honest most of the things you mentioned are not really due to it being 1st person, but rather design decisions which are a consequence of commercializing the game (making it appeal to a greater market) and poor animations.
It's kind of sad how many games come out these days where lip synching and facial animation are so lacking.
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Katy Hogben
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:54 pm

people seem to have the surviving deal figured out, and seem to be living rather comfortably.


Funny, as I was watching the making of DVD, Beth commented that the inhabitants are fairly happy and content in their environment (at least to some degree) "Give them some hairspray and they'd still use it" was part of the quote, if I remember correctly. That didn't define 'post-nuclear' to me. Sure, the game's atmosphere derives heavily from the optimism of the 1950's, but wouldn't some of that optimism kinda fade if you'd just woken up one day to find the world in radioactive ruins? I didn't encounter this heavy optimism in Fallout 1 + 2 (especially 2). That one REALLY felt like a post-nuclear sim, not just a 1950's sim. This is also why I heavily dislike the alien presence in the game, there is NOTHING post-apocalyptic about being abducted by aliens and beamed into a mothership with so much inconsistency and irrelevance to Fallout, it makes 'BoS' look like the holy grail of canon.

I love Fallout 3, it's the most fun I've had sat in front of a screen since I was obsessed with Jak and Daxter when I was 16, but after playing the previous 2 I can understand some of the comments criticizing the 3rd.
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Eve Booker
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:34 am

There are no romances.



There's too much romance in every movie, tv-series and games now a days.
It's starting to get annoying.
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Dawn Farrell
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:26 pm

I agree with a lot of folk here that there's too much loot in the form of stimpaks and the like, and that it's too easy to accumulate caps. Stimpaks should be five times the price that they are currently, and twenty, thirty times more rare. S'my only real gripe, I like far too much about Fallout 3. :lol:
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Matthew Aaron Evans
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:37 pm

There's too much romance in every movie, tv-series and games now a days.
It's starting to get annoying.


What games ? The only games that include some serious stuff are mostly from Bioware. :shifty:

AND romance is usually optional
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Penny Flame
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:03 pm

Romance is one of my most hated features an RPG can have.
I find them incredibly cheesy and atmosphere killers, often they seem to be little more than a sensitive teenager's dumb romantic fantasies .
They can turn a potentially epic story into a teen soap opera.

In general, writing in RPGs becomes of the lowest quality when the game turns emotional... these writers just can't handle stuff like that

Romance is in fact a reason for me not to buy a game, even if it's optional.
Having the option to either destroy my game or miss a big part of it, is not an option I would care to have.
(or maybe I'm just dead inside :D)

(though I bet abnaxus' wasn't actually serious)
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Mimi BC
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:02 pm

Romance is one of my most hated features an RPG can have.
I find them incredibly cheesy and atmosphere killers, often they seem to be little more than a sensitive teenager's dumb romantic fantasies .
They can turn a potentially epic story into a teen soap opera.

In general, writing in RPGs becomes of the lowest quality when the game turns emotional... these writers just can't handle stuff like that

Romance is in fact a reason for me not to buy a game, even if it's optional.
Having the option to either destroy my game or miss a big part of it, is not an option I would care to have.
(or maybe I'm just dead inside :D)

(though I bet abnaxus' wasn't actually serious)
You remind me of Obsidian's developer who was interviewed for SoZ expansion. He hates romances in RPgs from what I gathered, but each Obsidian sequel game: KotORII and NWN2 had romances. I didn't mind that he hated them, but when a romance or something that's supposed to be central to the PC be it optional or not comes across as half-assed at best, it tends to get on my nerves.

If a designer/developer hates writing romances, I can totally understand that, but I hate it when they still put it in with minimal effort. If they don't like it, they should just leave it out entirely and I won't mind at all.

Lately, I've also been wanting to see an RPG company like BioWare or similar write a romance with an evil NPC in mind, but they never get all lovey-dovey, they just show what little feelings they have through their actions. A romance that'd remind me of the Wicked Attraction show on Investigative Discovery, just to break away from the standard romance stuff. Oh but I'm rambling now.
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Kayla Keizer
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:02 pm

Lately, I've also been wanting to see an RPG company like BioWare or similar write a romance with an evil NPC in mind,

They have! especially Bioware.
From the top of my head I remember Viconia from Baldurs Gate II and Evil Aribeth & Nathyrra from Neverwinter Nights: HotU... there must be others.
They were as bad as the rest, only with a bit more of an s&m quality.
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Kirsty Wood
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:22 pm

They have! especially Bioware.
From the top of my head I remember Viconia from Baldurs Gate II and Evil Aribeth & Nathyrra from Neverwinter Nights: HotU... there must be others.
They were as bad as the rest, only with a bit more of an s&m quality.
Sadly I do not have Baldur's Gate II, and I have NWN with the two expansions, but Nathyrra is a NG Drow when you read her dialogue. I like the Evil Aribeth stuff, but it's so late in the game, it feels oddly forced to me, but nowhere along the lines of actual forced romance that occurs in the NWN2 expansion MotB.
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Cathrin Hummel
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:12 pm

Fallout 1/2 might not be "immersive" as modern gamers have come to define it, but i would argue they are infinitely more immersive than 3. It doesn't immerse you as a character or a role, but immerses you into a post-apocalyptic world. Fallout 3 feels like a survival horror game. Fallout 1/2 feel like a post-apocalyptic simulator. You can feel the world struggling to reconstruct itself after a nuclear war.
I've described this the opposite, but meaning the same as you; Where I said FO3 was a PA simulator :lol:

*But the distinction could be this... If both games were a micro world simulator, Fallout would simulate say.. an ant farm from the outside looking through the glass, where FO3 did so from inside one of the tunnels. Personally that's just not as interesting to me. The First person view masks the overall beauty of the design of the hive and prevents seeing the inhabitants go about their lives. ~Might be more realistic if I were pretending to be one of them, [but I never played Fallout as though the Vault dweller was me ~nor Baldur's gate as the Bhall Spawn] That's not a change I would appreciate in a branded sequel ~(though in a spin-off I'd not mind, and maybe even enjoy :shrug:).


To be honest most of the things you mentioned are not really due to it being 1st person, but rather design decisions which are a consequence of commercializing the game (making it appeal to a greater market) and poor animations.
It's kind of sad how many games come out these days where lip synching and facial animation are so lacking.
I would say much of it indeed was consequence of making it First Person; That entails a redesign of the gameplay, presentation, and player goals (as well as mainstreaming it past recognition). The poor animations I can live with.

*Funny thing... The first time I saw both a supermutant, and later a Deathclaw... Both animations really impressed me ~until I realized that those were the limping/wound animations and not the regular walk cycle. :rofl: How could they be so right and so wrong at the same time?

I'm seriously considering a mod that will use the injured anims for the regular, once I'm done with the ones I'm working on.


Romance is one of my most hated features an RPG can have.
I find them incredibly cheesy and atmosphere killers, often they seem to be little more than a sensitive teenager's dumb romantic fantasies .
They can turn a potentially epic story into a teen soap opera.
:thumbsup:
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Kevan Olson
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:32 pm

Romance? When I want romance I stop playing my game and walk up the stairs to bed. If my hubby want's in on it, he arrives. :lol:

I can't convince anyone to like games for the reason I like them. I enjoy searching a room as if I am there. I don't enjoy seeing two rooms from a birds eye view because well...I'm not a bird. :lol: Whatever floats your boat I guess. I am much more pleased with FO3 being FP and believe with all my heart that I would have enjoyed FO and FO1 much more if they had been FP and RT. :shrug: That's not to say I didn't enjoy them, but I like the direction Bethesda took with FO3.
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W E I R D
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:46 pm

Romance? When I want romance I stop playing my game and walk up the stairs to bed. If my hubby want's in on it, he arrives. :lol:

I can't convince anyone to like games for the reason I like them. I enjoy searching a room as if I am there. I don't enjoy seeing two rooms from a birds eye view because well...I'm not a bird. :lol: Whatever floats your boat I guess. I am much more pleased with FO3 being FP and believe with all my heart that I would have enjoyed FO and FO1 much more if they had been FP and RT. :shrug: That's not to say I didn't enjoy them, but I like the direction Bethesda took with FO3.
Here is the thing about that though... IMO both styles are equally fun, and equally valid. Bethesda's games do a great job of depicting how you would see a room if you were there ~ but...

This is a hallmark of the TES series of games, this is not a hallmark of the Fallout series of games, and shouldn't be shoe-horned into them. It was never the need or intent, and it was possible to do Fallout as Beth did Daggerfall or Red Guard. Fallout's world may interest many, but the game seems not to interest many TES fans; and not surprising, as these are different series for different audiences. IMO it is wrong ~not legally :P, but in every other respect, wrong to gut an established series and stitch it back together for a disinterested audience, done in a way that they would find palatable, but in a way wholly alien to the series, and one that does not offer similar (or in any way familiar) series gameplay.
IMO [gameplay-wise] this boat taints the water.

*I've a Question... Would you have cared if the game you have had been named other than Fallout #3?
I expect the answer is 'no', and I'd think it likely that most fans of the current game would equally not care (especially since a good number of them had never heard of Fallout 1 or 2).
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Captian Caveman
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:32 pm

Here is the thing about that though... IMO both styles are equally fun, and equally valid. Bethesda's games do a great job of depicting how you would see a room if you were there ~ but...

This is a hallmark of the TES series of games, this is not a hallmark of the Fallout series of games, and shouldn't be shoe-horned into them. It was never the need or intent, and it was possible to do Fallout as Beth did Daggerfall or Red Guard. Fallout's world may interest many, but the game seems not to interest many TES fans; and not surprising, as these are different series for different audiences. IMO it is wrong ~not legally :P, but in every other respect, wrong to gut an established series and stitch it back together for a disinterested audience, in a way they would find palatable. That's what Spin-offs are for.

Well, you see...I played Fallout long before I played anything TES and I wished for FPP and RT when I played them. At that point, being a dumb old and not a geeky type, I didn't even know they could do FPP and RT but I longed for a game that could make me feel as if I was part of a movie and being part of it I could change it or interact with it. If I were a smart lady with skill that it took, I would have been trying to figure out how to do that with Fallout way back then prior to having ever played a FPP game and that would have seemed to me like the direction to take. Little did I know at the time that I would end up finding that perspective in an RPG with Morrowind which caused me to discover Daggerfall and I loved them for that reason. It did not change that I thought Fallout was an awesome game but it did make me long for Fallout to take that leap into that perspective. IMO, it would be the right thing to do.

*I've a Question... Would you have cared if the game you have had been named other than Fallout #3?
I expect the answer is 'no', and I'd think it likely that most fans of the current game would equally not care (especially since a good number of them had never heard of Fallout 1 or 2).

Care? Ummm, I don't care about names that much so I guess it would not have bothered me if they called it a bologna sandwich, I would have bought and played it never the less. I don't think a name should bother anyone enough to cause any drama. Since Bethesda bought this baby...she can name it what she wants. I'm not too fond of what my kids named their kids, but it's just not my decision and I won't rag on them about it. You get to name your kids, the songs you write and the games you own and make. :shrug:

I know it's a sore spot with you...I just don't get why. Of course, that does not help or change how you feel and I often wish they had named it something else just for those who seem to feel so slighted by it. Just because I don't understand why you feel slighted does not mean that I have no empathy for you or those who do care. And just because I don't like my Grandkids name does not mean that I don't love the little boogers.
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Channing
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:32 pm

I liked Fallout 1/2 before playing Fallout 3, but I was never a huge fan because I was more into Baldur's Gate 1/2 at the time. After playing Fallout 3 my appreciation of Fallout 1/2 grew immensely; I found them to be infinitely better games for many reasons which I, and many others have explained over and over again. This is preference of course, but the thing is that Fallout was designed with a certain audience in mind and Bethesda ignored that audience completely because it doesn't fit their design philosophy, nor what the masses seemingly want.

Well if you're not going to do a sequel right don't do one at all. As I said before, Interplay/Black Isle set the standard for what Fallout should be; they pioneered the series. If Bethesda isn't going to make a proper sequel then I honestly don't think they deserve the license. Say what you will, but in the video game industry game mechanics are far more important in what defines a sequel than story and setting. Take a look at Final Fantasy; all of that series' games are set in different universes with only a few recurring elements, but the gameplay has always been fairly consistent with minor evolutions along the way.

I'm not even going to touch the immersion comments. :)

Well, you see...I played Fallout long before I played anything TES and I wished for FPP and RT when I played them. At that point, being a dumb old and not a geeky type, I didn't even know they could do FPP and RT but I longed for a game that could make me feel as if I was part of a movie and being part of it I could change it or interact with it. If I were a smart lady with skill that it took, I would have been trying to figure out how to do that with Fallout way back then prior to having ever played a FPP game and that would have seemed to me like the direction to take. Little did I know at the time that I would end up finding that perspective in an RPG with Morrowind which caused me to discover Daggerfall and I loved them for that reason. It did not change that I thought Fallout was an awesome game but it did make me long for Fallout to take that leap into that perspective. IMO, it would be the right thing to do.


Daggerfall and Morrowind are great games in their own right, but Fallout was never intended to be like them. I thought it would have been a great experience had Fallout 3 been a spin off, but Fallout 3 is heralded as a sequel. As a sequel Fallout 3 fails on many accounts. This doesn't mean it's a bad game, or that your opinion isn't valid at all, but story and setting aren't what define sequels in the video game industry. If Fallout 3 were called "Fallout: D.C." a lot of us miserable old timers wouldn't have had any problems with it from a sequel perspective; I'd still have some issues with the presentation and mechanics myself, but those things aren't related to Fallout 3's designation as a sequel.

Fallout 3 should have been an isometric game with a turn based function (and possibly a real time option like Van Buren was going to have); not a first person game that places way more emphasis on combat than its predecessors. This doesn't mean that what became Fallout 3 couldn't have existed; it just should have been called something else allowing Fallout 3 to be a proper sequel. TES and Fallout are both great series' much like Civilization and Command & Conquer are great franchises. Does this mean that the next Civilization should be a small scale RTS with an emphasis on tank spamming? Certainly not, they're their own unique experiences much like TES and Fallout should have remained separate and unique experiences.
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Far'ed K.G.h.m
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:34 pm

Romance is in fact a reason for me not to buy a game, even if it's optional.
Having the option to either destroy my game or miss a big part of it, is not an option I would care to have.
(or maybe I'm just dead inside :D )


Seriously ? Romance doesn't really bother me at all, but eh... sounds kinda weird when you can't get over it and damn the whole game afterwards. :shrug:

It's like saying that Mount & Blade(great gameplay and breathtaking combat system) is a crap, since it has inferior graphics (A vital part of a 3D game. Just like 'romance' has a big part in the game according to you, right ?).
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Steeeph
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:35 am

[quote name='summer' post='15073192' date='Sep 16 2009, 12:11 PM']Well, you see...I played Fallout long before I played anything TES and I wished for FPP and RT when I played them.[/quote]
[quote]I know it's a sore spot with you...I just don't get why.[/quote]

Well, first off... The Fallout series (what I've read of it), began as Tim Cain's attempt to design a GURPS implementation for the PC. As you know, the original name was Fallout: A GURPS role playing game. (Or GURPS post nuclear adventure).
The game was designed to depict the world as a "live action" diorama with miniatures, much as some might play the game GURPS (or other games of the day). They lost the license, but kept the gameplay with their redesigned SPECIAL system. With Fallout 3 Bethesda has abandoned all concern for the series intents (regardless of GURPS specific rules), and redesigned SPECIAL to be TES compatible (by that I mean, decoupled it from the combat system ~ and chucked that part, then patched the holes). Special now emulates the stats in Oblivion. Defense & Weapon use has changed form the intricate system from before. Where once there was random damage (depicting variations in aim & circumstance), now there is constant damage per second. Where there was choice of ammo (higher damage vs better penetration), now there is none. where there was Armorclass that could negate less than perfect shots, now there is what looks like a percentage based damage reduction to all shots. Fallout thrived on the varied applications of its complex system, FO3 strives to remove complexity.

On the visual side of things... Fallout 3 does an unmatched job of depicting the wasteland (as it would have been 40-50 years after the war :(), but because of the change in format the plausible distances and the sparse barren areas of the wastes clash with the first person nature of the new game. Walking in the barren waste is boring ~its supposed to be... its wasted land. Fallout did not have this problem, but was able to include and impart the barren wastes in between settlements in a believable manner that really set the scale of the destruction. When you walked the overland map you saw city wide impact craters.
Fallout 3 plays like its all inside a national park.

Vantage-wise (ISO vs. FPP), I've already posted about today in another thread...
[quote]If both games were a micro world simulator, Fallout would simulate say.. an ant farm from the outside looking through the glass, where FO3 did so from inside one of the tunnels. Personally that's just not as interesting to me [in this game series].

The First person view masks the overall beauty of the design of the hive and prevents seeing the inhabitants go about their lives. ~Might be more realistic if I were pretending to be one of them, [but I never played Fallout as though the Vault dweller was me ~nor Baldur's gate as the Bhall Spawn] That's not a change I would appreciate in a branded sequel[/quote]

**I completely agree with Talonfire's post above. (Though... I would not object to a limited first person view as seen in Prince of Persia:Sands of Time, or Kotor2, or [Terminal Reality's] Norcturne... They all had it for the same reason, and IMO that reason could equally apply to a Fallout sequel).
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Jonathan Egan
 
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Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:10 pm

Daggerfall and Morrowind are great games in their own right, but Fallout was never intended to be like them. I thought it would have been a great experience had Fallout 3 been a spin off, but Fallout 3 is heralded as a sequel. As a sequel Fallout 3 fails on many accounts. This doesn't mean it's a bad game, or that your opinion isn't valid at all, but story and setting aren't what define sequels in the video game industry. If Fallout 3 were called "Fallout: D.C." a lot of us miserable old timers wouldn't have had any problems with it from a sequel perspective; I'd still have some issues with the presentation and mechanics myself, but those things aren't related to Fallout 3's designation as a sequel.

Fallout 3 should have been an isometric game with a turn based function (and possibly a real time option like Van Buren was going to have); not a first person game that places way more emphasis on combat than its predecessors. This doesn't mean that what became Fallout 3 couldn't have existed; it just should have been called something else allowing Fallout 3 to be a proper sequel. TES and Fallout are both great series' much like Civilization and Command & Conquer are great franchises. Does this mean that the next Civilization should be a small scale RTS with an emphasis on tank spamming?

You see, I just don't care what they intended. I liked them very much but wished I could jump in there and feel as if I was my character. I thought that would have been better. I thought Black Isle missed an opportunity to make me like their game better. I didn't care about the ones that thought they got everything perfect. I know what I like and what I wished for when I played one of the best ever games. (Fallout) I loved the humor, loved the atmosphere, loved the quests, the choices, the consequences and I really loved those talking heads. I loved them enough to wish all encounters could be like that.

Now, I am thrilled that you loved it as it was, but I wished for change and when Bethesda did 3, they gave me and those like me what we wanted.

But really, I will never understand how anyone would feel personally insulted because they took a different direction. It really is what it would have taken for anyone new to go forward with this game and be successful. I mean, it's what makes it Bethesda's Fallout rather than Black Isle/Interplay fallout. Had they tried to just copy and paste without any redesign or bringing something new, fresh and different to the game...it would have failed miserably because frankly Fallout will never be what it was way back then again and I so hate copy cats. This is Bethesda's Fallout now and while they did try to include the lore, the environment, the feel of the old games, they also tried and succeeded in making it their own. With that there will always be those who are disappointed, those who are thrilled, those who are indifferent, those who are new and think this one is sliced bread and those who feel offended. But bottom line is...it has been very well received and not just by those new to the series but also by those few old fans like me who are thrilled with the direction Bethesda took. I :wub: Fallout 3.
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Jordan Fletcher
 
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Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:27 am

Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:21 pm

Well Bethesda making Fallout 3 like TES is a double edged sword because it gives the implication that they don't have the talent to develop anything but. There's also plenty of development houses that were tasked with developing sequels in established series', and did a great job without coming across as 'copy cats'. Like I said before, in this industry its expected that sequels play like their predecessors but with improvements. Fallout 3 as is, isn't an improvement because it doesn't resemble its predecessors at all.

I don't think anyone considers Fallout 1/2 perfect, by the way.
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xxLindsAffec
 
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Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:39 pm

Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:35 pm

Agreed.

*And I have an example.

I just saw District 9 ~and I loved it... Best Scifi since Matrix IMO... but as soon as the show started it looked extremely familiar to me. It looked like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snfc_wNWqSU (for good reason). While I love Mr. Blomkamp's current works, if every new project he does in the future follows the exact same format, regardless of context and content... I see myself losing interest, and imagine he'll be as typcast as Leonard Nemoy. Just imagine if he'd done Lord of the rings...

*BTW, for those that have not seen his HALO3 concept... its quite a show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxdvGO1oOF0
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Jeneene Hunte
 
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:18 pm

Post » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:39 am

Well Bethesda making Fallout 3 like TES is a double edged sword because it gives the implication that they don't have the creative talent to develop anything but. There's also plenty of development houses that were tasked with developing sequels in established series', and did a great job without coming across as 'copy cats'. Like I said before, in this industry its expected that sequels play like their predecessors but with improvements. Fallout 3 as is, isn't an improvement because it doesn't resemble its predecessors at all.

I don't think anyone considers Fallout 1/2 perfect, by the way.

Just so you know, if Bethesda went under and someone else bought and made the next TES game, I would not feel that the new company would owe it to me to make the game like Bethesda does or to even be a game that I liked. I would not feel slighted or insulted. I would just figure it was my loss and wish them well in their business adventures and run off to find my new interests. I like to roll with whatever happens in life much less in the game industry. Please know however that I'm not saying you are wrong or that you don't have a right to feel slighted. I just find it rather odd that some folks carry the torch so long. I've gotten over major life altering events that seemed wrong to me without such ado so I lack some understanding of its importance and believe me I've tried very hard to understand the plethora of hate surrounding it all.

I keep coming back here on occasion however to make an effort to understand...I just never will it seems.
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Lauren Graves
 
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