Dude, chill it out, it just a speculation

Im with Styles, hope that Barnaky ending to be canon



Not me, not Styles, not some other people that I know, you catch the drift



Dangerous in what?

Fascism, anti-Fascism?, dont worry, we cant talk about politics here, it is right, we have right to speculate what endings could be canon,

Enclave was acussed for be nazis wannabes, but there is a big different between them (Enclave is better)

I dont want to sound like a [censored], but you are taking those comment very seriously, this just need to makes sense in-game and Universe wise, not Real Life

I agree with Dario here. Why is liking the idea of the Barnaky ending dangerous? To me, it creates a Brotherhood that gets things done and whom I could actually (possibly) support.

I like the idea of calculator/MWBOS forces purging the wastes and fighting against the MLA.

West:

Mid-West: No opionion

East: :/

Didn't like how you were FORCED to help them, no matter what.

Enclave: and

Remanants: <3

( I know how your hard to convince of things Styles, so i have been looking up info for you for proof to back my point that the calculator ending makes the most sense, i cut and paste this out of the General Barnaky entry from the Vault Wiki:

Barnaky's Fate

There are three possible ways the General's story could end.

* Depending on how the player chooses to deal with him, he could come back to his senses after the Warrior reminds him of his wife using his locket or his holotape. Now Barnaky becomes scared of his betrayal, his new form and human extermination. After this, the Warrior could put his brain into the Calculator, which then takes on a pro-Prime Human mentality and begins to restore mankind to its prior glory at the cost of all mutated beings and Super Mutants being hunted down and chased back to the West Coast.
* He could be destroyed while fighting the Warrior.
* His fate if the Warrior saved him then decided to sacrifice himself to become one with the Calculator is not known, though it could be assumed he becomes the guardian of the Warrior/Calculator, or is executed by the Brotherhood.

According to Rothchild in Fallout 3, the canonical ending of the game is the slow downfall of the Brotherhood which could be a result of the destruction of Calculator, so it could be assumed that Simon Barnaky's canonical fate is death by the hand of Warrior.

I also got this from the Calculator entry from the same sight:

Menace from the WestEdit Menace from the West sectionEdit

The Exodus protocol could also be triggered by a breach of the vault's defenses, as was the case when the Eastward-fleeing super mutants stumbled upon Vault 0; this awoke the Calculator completely. The cybernetic being proceeded to enact its "pacification protocol", considering all life to be its enemies. The Calculator activated its nuclear reactor in Buena Vista and constructed many robot manufacturing and repair facilities across the wastes. Soon, the Chicago region was full of rumors of a Menace from the West, coming to exterminate all life.

The Calculator discovered a useful ally in a captured Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel General named Simon Barnaky, who began to see the machine as the only hope of restoring order. Barnaky was transformed into a humanoid Robobrain and began his service to the Calculator as its adviser and guardian.

Although the Calculator had begun rapid expansion and had attempted to eliminate the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel, Vault 0 was breached by Brotherhood forces led by the warrior. There, the warrior defeated the robots and Simon Barnaky's new form, and entered the Calculator chamber. The eight brains crucial to the Calculator were destroyed, so the Calculator required a new brain to continue to function. From here on, the warrior had three choices.

* Merge with the Calculator, taking control of it and using its resources for the Brotherhood.
* Allow Simon Barnaky to merge with the Calculator, which would result in a new Brotherhood of Steel and anti-mutant regime.
* Do nothing, allowing the Calculator to shut down forever, or destroy it using weapons.

In Fallout 3, it was revealed that Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel had fallen on hard times, so it is believed that the canonical choice the warrior made was the third one.

Also, i looked up the Warrior as well, just for the fact i like to do things in threes:

The following is based on Fallout Tactics and some details might contradict canon.

The Warrior was the nickname of the Player Character in Fallout Tactics.
Background

Unlike the Chosen One, the Warrior was not a descendant of the Vault Dweller or any of the Vault 13 people. He/she was a tribal recruited by the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel as an Initiate. General Simon Barnaky believed the recruit would be a great commander, and after all, he was right. The Warrior successfully accomplishes one mission after another, faster than anyone before, achieving new ranks. Later, the Warrior became a legend in the Brotherhood and a new General.

It was the Warrior who won the faction war that took place in Chicago, by defeating the threats of an alliance of local raiders, a psychic tribe of Beastlords, who were able to control animals of the wastes, and Gammorin's super mutants, the remnants of the Master's army. However, the Warrior's greatest deed is winning the war against Calculator's robots. In the end, the Warrior either became one with the Calculator, allowed someone else to do this, or simply destroyed the Calculator. Judging from the Fallout 3's information about the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel, the Warrior probably chose to destroy the machine.

Since I will more than likely be ignored anyway, I will only add you are right, i checked the timeline and you were right about Lyons not being born yet. But Vault Wiki Has all the info of the Bible already, and every other source that has been put out there, i have been scouring as well to confirm their info. It's the most logical choice. I know you want the Barnaky ending, but it does not make sense, you can't get out of things that easy by depending on an all knowing computer, humanity has to learn the hard way, and the calculators destruction does fit the mutant status quo relatively fine as well, while sticking to canon as well.)

It could mean anything, with a complete downfall being the least likely. It could be that the struggle with the MLA takes a small toll on their numbers. The MWBOS would probably still be the most powerful faction around at the time of F:NV, just not as powerful as they once were. Keep in mind, the MWBOS has many highly skilled squads (training attrition rate being around 85%). Furthermore, they can just lie about what's going on.

Also, I wouldn't rely too much on Rothchild when it comes to canon, he's already guilty of breaking canon once by building Optimus. I'd get him to confess, but I need help carrying this comfy chair.

Somehow this reminds me about how people expect FO4 to be in the Commonwealth because of the numerous references in FO3 (how many really were there, a whopping 3 or so?).

I like the Brotherhood Of Steel. I have Fallout 3 only, btw.

They have power armour and weapons, awesome.

But they are mean to Ghouls.

The Commander Lyons ones are good.

The Outcast Brotherhood Of Steel are honest about their intentions, however mean they are.

Apart from the part were they attack you when you take the power armour in the Operation Anchorage DLC.

They might attack you if you just take weapons, I don't know. But nothing, and I mean nothing is going to stop me taking that power armour.

I have not met any others so far.

(Your in for a treat then, the west coast is similar to the outcasts, but more xenophobic in a way.

As for the power Armor in OA)

There are Four Ending to Tactics

1) You played as a good character (had really good karma) and the Outcome is: You take control of the Calculator and things are great for the people and mutations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ewKOcVW2E, this ending would not cause the down fall of the MWBoS the "Hard times" we learn about in Fallout 3.

2) You have bad karma and then you get this Ending: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxXJFGh1qng, this would cause the down fall of the MWBoS as in the Calculator would be what we end up coming across and not people. The "Calculator's Brotherhood" would still be strong and control large armies and most of the Midwest.

3) The Ending were you do nothing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYS_Bo2ixNg, things are harder without the Calaculator armies but things still workout well for Humans and Mutants and would not cause the down fall of the MWBoS.

4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYS_Bo2ixNg This would cause the down fall of the MWBoS and would give us the Mutant Liberation Army.

Still the MWBoS are the only BoS that have done anything to really help people, long before Lyons, 79 years before him. Their way of doing things maybe to "fascist" for some but at least they are doing something. They stopped a large mutant army and then the calculator army. They help people farm and provide protection.

Western BoS don't help anyone but themselves and Lyons helps but really he just controls half a small chapter of people in DC where as the MWBoS controlled armies and had bases across the Midwestern United States.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY

( I'm sorry,but, Well after you just had a war with the Enclave, and an ongoing war with Super mutants, your numbers would be reduced as well, would they not? I will not argue about the west, but the MWBoS as of 2281, that is the key word, HADbases all over the Midwest, they are now in bad shape, and probably are as bad off as the East coast is now logically. I have offered three logical conclusions as to what happened to the MWBoS after the Calculator battle, all make sense, all are logical, but saying the MWBoS is the only one that has helped people when the CWBoS helps with the Purifier, and by making sure the CW is not overrun with Super Mutants, that is just not fair Styles, not fair at all, it is as if you want all the chapters but the MWBoS to fail, and that is just not Fair.)

First I used the word HAD for a reason. I know that they have "Fallen on hard times." Since the events of Fallout Tactics. Out of all the Endings only one would explain how they had fallen on hard times. How they went from controlling armies and having bases all over the Midwestern United States to what Lyons called a small group outside of Chicago. The Good, Bad and Normal ending all still have things going well for the Brotherhood. Only the Barnaky ending would cause such a down fall. My idea is also logical.

I know Lyons helps but like I have been trying to say is that Lyons controls a small chapter, half a chapter in DC, while the MWBoS controlled large parts of the Midwestern United States and commanded Armies. Now I am not an expert but the group that is larger can do more good then a smaller group.

I could be wrong and if I am sorry, but the only problem you seem to have is that the Barnaky Ending would have mutations rounded up and killed. Normal humans would be ok. Still Tactics and the other Fallouts made it clear that humans hate mutants. Still the Mutants are not helpless. In the Barnaky ending they form the Mutant Liberation Army and could be responsible for the Fall of the MWBoS.

Also the thing with the work camps, that was a MWBoS thing. Barnaky did not come up with them. They formed the camps as a means of controlling slavers, criminals and raiders. Barnaky just used them to put mutations in as well as those that were against Barnaky.

""I really hope the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZcpcO7C58 is canon. The story would be awesome. The Enclave in Chicago would be alot like the MWBoS that have started to form a fascist military dictatorship that goes from Chicago to Colorado but the Enclave would have had to change as well. Dispite the BoS acting alot like them they are still impure in the eyes of the Enclave but if the Enclave in the area were smart they could become allies with the bos.

Way I see it. The MWBoS fight a bloody war against the Super Mutants and then the Calculator. They force settlements to aid them by giving food, ammo and their best and brightest. Many people do join willingly but the BoS treat them as cannon fodder. The Elders let mutations join because they can be very useful in places humans can't due to radiation.

Vault Zero falls to the BoS and Barnaky becomes one with the Calculator. The BoS are happy to have General Barnaky back. There is a push to make him the head Elder of the MWBoS. The famed warrior (you) who is also a General backs the move to make Barnaky the new head elder. Which he does become.

He soon recalls all mutations from the BoS armies and orders them back to their home bases were they are disarmed and tagged, later to be sent to work camps. BoS stops letting mutations join. Laws are pased and any mutation within the BoS' territory is to be rounded up and also sent to camps. (work/death camps) Which is the start of the great betrayal.

Elders that were most against Barnaky becoming head elder are removed from power. Soon purges happen with in the BoS, anyone that was against barnaky or seen to aid mutations are also sent to the camps. Entire settlement get put to the flame. Soon the Mutant Liberation army forms. BoS caravans and outpost get hit. Work camps are liberated. The BoS see a dramatic fall in people willing to join the BoS. They start having desertions.

Human numbers are replaced more an more by calculator robots and more purges follow fearing an inside job. The BoS stop trying to contact the West in order to get their own house in order.

Biggest blow happens when rouge BoS members set off several bombs within Vault Zero in a failed coup d'état. Many of the calculators systems are damged beyond repair. Barnaky lives but finds has less control over the robotic forces. He can't control them all at once and the ability to make more robots is severely hampered.

Mutant Liberation Army makes allies with whats left of the reaver movement and are supplied with EMP weapons. The remaining slaver/raider groups once again become stronge and prey on BoS settlements and outposts.

Decades of bloody Guerrilla warfare against the MLA and the predation of other factions (slavers, raiders) have driven the MWBoS back to their remaining strongholds such as Vault Zero and Cities in between Colorado and Chicago.

Lyons and his BoS are sent out to make contact but don't really know where they are, they know the MWBoS went East. They took a path that takes them away from the MWBoS strongholds at Vault Zero and the others in the Midwest. As Lyons gets closer to DC he hears rumors of people that have similar tech and a simbol are in the area. Lyon spends along time hunting down those rumors. MWBoS fearing that Lyons is just the tip of a larger army coming up from the south west, do what they can to not be found by them.

Lyons is persistent and soon the MWBoS send out a group of their own elders to make contact. They tell Lyons that MWBoS are just a few hundred men and women close to Chicago. Lyons having made contact goes on to the more imprtaint mission of heading to DC.

Like the Barnaky ending states its a war the Mutant Liberation Army is distended to lose. MWBoS have seen bitter defeat after bitter defeat for generations and are now a shadow of their glory days but time is on their side. Mutations can't reproduce and the ones that don't fall to the BoS will be taken care of by father time. The humans and fellow bos memebers that sided with the MLA grow tired of fighting. Seeing as how they have crippled the MWBoS and liberated much of their territory. They just want to settle and farm, the threat is all but gone (so they think). After generations of war the younger generations don't take up the fight.

Maybe the MWBoS will find an ally in Augustus Autumn and his advanced tech can help the MWBoS take back what they lost."

Anyone that wants to know the MWBoS POV watch this ==> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY

Quoted for the awesomeness win

(it's a good story, but if you look up the CWBoS in the Vault Wiki, this is what the first sentence states in the Scourge section:

Scourging the Pitt

Contact with the "rogue" Midwestern Brotherhood in Chicago turned out to be unsuccessful.

And when i looked up the Midwestern Brotherhood, i came acrossed this:

As of 2277, the splinter faction consists only of a small detachment in Chicago and are still expanding. It has come into some contact with the original, West Coast Brotherhood, but it refused to accept the authority of the Lost Hills elders. Thus, they are considered to be rogue by the rest of the Brotherhood. They also differ from the rest of the Brotherhood as they are willing to accept non-humans into their ranks.

Now if the Barnaky ending was really planned to be canon, this would not have been written, but the people at The Vault Wiki, I doubt they would put in misleading info if it goes along with endings that are evil, as we have learned from Fallout and Fallout 2, Canon endings are not evil.

Now do not get me wrong, while the moral part of myself is the part that tends to stay out the most, there is a part of me that does like your idea, and thinks it would make for an interesting story, my normal side overrules it and sees the overwhelming evidence, and has to conclude that the Calculator was destroyed, The Brotherhood helped the people for as long as it could for those 79 years, but the MWBoS fell back into ruination, they finally contacted the West and told them to kiss off, the West sent Lyons on his mission, Lyons could not find the MWBoS, and went to the Pitt, then DC, and we know the rest. Now that i know what i know about them using mutants in their forces, I like them a LOT better now too this way.)

In this case Bethesda leaving things so open ended, leaves the door open for the Barnaky Ending. If Lyons did not make contract then how does the brotherhood know what shape the MWBoS are in? They travelled all the way from Chicago to California in just to tell them to kiss off? All we have to go by is that Rothchild makes a mention to the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel, saying that they have fallen on hard times. A simple change could be made to say Lyons did make contact. I don't recall there being mention that they did not.


There is no "overwhelming evidence" that the Calculator was destroyed. Even if it was, they would not fall apart. Even the ending where the Calculator is destroyed the Brotherhood still manage to recruit new people, build new bases. "The Brotherhood is quick to establish Vault Zero as their main base of operations. Although much destroction was wrought here it still represents a massive storehouse of knowlegde and technology." So how would they lose such a base and all their other bases and their ability to recuit new people? Nothing about thins ending would cause their down fall the "Hard times."

Wiki is just fans mostly made of of members from another Fallout Forum and their best guess at what would happen. I don't much care for them because for years they called Tactics None-Canon and ignored it.

Everything is just speculation. If you have overwhelming evidence as in where it says Vault Zero was destroyed please show me.The people that made wiki/vault for years refused to recognize Vault Zero or anything Tactics as canon. So its funny you would be so willing to call their speculation "the word of god" so to speak.

Anyways your not going to get me to change my mind about the Barnaky Ending and clearly I am not going to change yours, so we are going to have to agree to disagree.

(I'll agree to disagree because it will take more concrete proof than there is available to convince you, but you need to make sure that people know the Barnaky ending is not Canon, i have gotten that feeling and impression a lot from a lot of people. I will tell them as much, as i will mention there is no canon ending except that the MWBoS numbers have dwindled, nothing more.

@ Dario: There is no win in this debate, Styles was not trying to defeat me, and i am slightly offended that you seem to have taken that kind of mentality, this was a healthy debate, he has his opinion, i have mine of what the MWBoS is now. Granted a part of me still likes Styles story for originality and being well written, and i will remember it as a well written alternative storyline. Facts will be written someday by Bethesda, and until then, we have to go by our opinions, i will not begrudge anyone else, but let others get their own opinions as to what is the correct ending, don't flavor one ending to entice it to be sweeter to others.)

I never said "this is the Canon Ending to Tactics" not once have I done so. In fact that "nice story" as you put it starts out with me saying "I really hope the Barnaky ending is canon." You are right there is no Canon ending. I am just hoping that the Barnaky ending is the one picked if any. I have thought about Tactics for close to ten years while others called it not canon. I have had to fight and often the lone voice defending it. Many just went by wiki/vault which only in the last years or so started accepting the idea of a MWBoS and Tactics.

There is no proof that any one ending is more canon then the other. We only have small open ended bits from Fallout 3 that just confirm there is such a thing as a MWBoS.

(Well, i respect you doing so Styles, but your voice is becoming a chisel and hammer to a lot of people, and those stars by your name give you credence to some people. So all i am saying is be careful, no more, no less. While i know you like Tactics as close to a #1 pic if not #1, and take the Vault Wiki with a grain of salt due to their use of facts loosely, I have no rank of tactics yet, as all i have based my reasoning is every picture, video, and article i have seen on it, and i view the Vault Wiki as being very accurate as they would not be using materials without double checking their sources, including the Fallout Bible and other creditable sources.

In short we should agree to disagree as stated, and not squabble over this, while i enjoy debating you, i think we have gotten this debate of the opinion about the Brotherhood off track long enough, besides, there are two sides of the country still, and the Brotherhood spans more than just in the Midwest.

Hmmmmm, not counting that awful burned game info, i wonder where else in the country The Brotherhood would be useful in?):unsure:

Scribes from Fallout 3 claimed that the Midwestern BoS have fallen on hard times, and are only a small detachment outside of Chicago. As far as speculation goes, perhaps the Lyons crew only came across a Midwestern Brotherhood squad, which would be how they traditionally operate, that was en route to some location. Perhaps the squad leader, knowledgeable of the West Coast Brotherhood's desire to impose authority over the Midwestern branch, is wary and hesitant to give specifics to Lyons and her crew. What the scribes said could have been falsified for all we know.

What irks me about the references made in Fallout 3 is about this chapter only being a small detachment outside Chicago. This Brotherhood was known for swelling its ranks through open recruitment and the acquiring of villagers and tribals through trade-offs and deals with the communities. Unless for some reason this branch had a major change in policy, I don't exactly see the Midwestern Brotherhood being a small detachment. Not saying they should be huge, but probably not small.

But, really, it's pretty hard to distinguish what became of the chapter when all you have to go off of are a couple vague lines of dialogue.

This. I have been going with the same theory. MWBoS would not want to be found by the Western/Original BoS and they would avoid Lyons as best they can. Lyons coming across a small group of MWBoS and not really carring accept the falsified information and move on to DC. I realy hope this is the case. For the MWBoS would be far bigger then just a Chapter. A large chunk of the Original BoS were sent on that air convoy and they let in outsiders. They had Armies! No Chapter has armies and controlled towns and had bunkers from Chicago to Colorado Springs. Something could have happened to cause their down fall but they should still control some towns and have strong holds across the Midwestern United States.



I also agree with this I am not happy that they called them a small group outside of Chicago but at least Bethesda has confirmed there is such a things as a MWBoS which finally makes Tactics a legitimate game. To me it has always been Canon but for the longest time most people wrote it off as non-canon.

We can only really hope that Bethesda explains that as (like you and Deilure said) the trickery of the MWBOS in not showing their whole force/Lyon's misinterpreting their numbers. If not I too will be peaved.

(until we learn otherwise, we have to go on that the numbers of MWBoS are not that high right now as stated in FO3, and until we can learn which ending is Canon in Tactics.)

True we have to wait till Bethesda decides what ending they pick and how big the MWBoS will be after 80 + years since Tactics. We might have to wait along time. We don't know if Fallout 4 will be in the Midwest around Chicago. Still I know I am not alone about wanting to see the MWBoS as more then a small chapter of people. Would be great if they still control towns and have bunkers thoughout the Midwest.

If we do see them again, regardless of the ending they pick as canon. I hope they still act like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY

Canon says that the Western BoS, MWBoS and CWBoS are all just Brotherhood of Steel. They are different and we fans gave them names to tell them apart. Only BoS that call themselves something other then Brotherhood are the Outcast.

I myself,like the brotherhood as a whole because of tech..And also I will eventually take over the Enclave... we'll send a group of misfits with with blowie uppy stuff tied to them and be kinda like "MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHA,WE ARE FINALLY IN FULL CONTROL *sorta*!!!!!!MWUAHAHAHAHA!" *evil moment that normally happens when you get to be an elder.. with the exception of elder Lyons..And elder McNamara..

Long live the Brotherhood. Steal be with you.

(And Steel Be with you Brother.)

I always saw the BoS as an overprotective mother. It takes all of humanity's technology toys to keep it from "hurting" itself.