The ncr stared it didn't they?

It was the Brotherhoods increasingly aggressive stance on collecting advanced technology that led to the war however.

Prove this, this was kinda one of those situations where it goes like this;"Hey lets drop the whole damn objective and save some lives. Give some future to this dieing world." Not like it could crumble any more than it already has. I see DC as a key location for BoS control. The Pitt doesn't count.



And let that beautiful technology just sit there? You sir are crazy. Not like anyone else would know what to do with it. <_<

I might argue that willingly taking on an entire hellhole full of mutants and throat-cutting murderers with limited resources and no support is a bit braver than staying in fortified bunkers and only emerging to obtain tech and conduct hit-and-run raids on a larger opponent.

I honestly don't see how the East Coast BoS can be called cowards; call them many things, sure, but cowards?

Sounds like some one didn't play tactics! XD

In case you didn't notice, the BoS don't really concern themselves with technology that doesn't have a military application.

I think it depends on how " in trouble of being killed off" at the moment. they have extensive records of non-military things too. So they can maintain there equipment and keep themselves feed and so forth. It's just in New vegas they just came out of a devastating defeat, and are hunger for new tech that will help them survive another attack, aka weapons.

Yea the brotherhood are only after technology that is weapons. The rest doesn't concern them.

They care about armour don't they?

Not necessarily; Veronica seemed to think the agricultural technology contained within Vault 22 would be of use to the Mojave chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel.

i dont care about them...
in new vegas, they hate me...
i did nothing to piss them of, and had veronica with me
and before you think about this problem think about this:
i did not wair any ncr, legion or any other faction armor
so my opinion...
screw them...
except for veronica, she can punch your head off by punching your nads...

"Walks back in and takes a seat and gets a bottle of purified water" Damn initiates, can't tell their heads from their butts some days, I spent all day helping them on the shooting range, and i did not see much improvement so far. Anyways, i have been reading a LOT of comments, some very well written by those who appreciate the efforts i do, and those who would rather see me six feet under, while others, i would say as *nice try*. I saved one comment that sum up my opinion of the three factions right now of my brothers and sisters out there in the wasteland. While my reports of the actions of the Midwest chapter are hearsay at best and does not sum up my own final opinion, this is what i would go with based on the intel i have so far from all the sources i have been able to go to so far( The Vault, NMA, and various reviews). The West and East coast are very solid, and i am willing to agree these match my own solid opinions, though i am willing to give Elder McNamara credit for basing his decisions off the irrational course set by that weird Elder Elijah, though i will admit he trained the scribe Veronica very well to think outside normal parameters and paradigms.

So In short, i agree and will repeat in my own opinion, I think the West needs to get off it's high horse, and wake up, or it will be seeing a very slow death, as they are acting ridiculous. The Midwest, Until i can pass final judgment, i have little to say, but what i have seen from my reports is ridiculous and unbelievable. And the East Coast, Well, I think they have done wonders, and i wish them the best of luck helping the poor and disadvantaged in the Capital Wasteland, Kill some Raiders and Super Mutants for me! :flamethrower:

Now back to training, I still have to show these initiates how to fire a gun, and hopefully, this time they can hit a target....

the brotherhood are after any advanced form of tech they can find. the question is, if there is agricultural tech and military tech which one would they go after first. :deal:

The Death Star.

Do the defensive lasers of the Lucky 38 make count as an immobile mini Death Star? Maybe the product should first be properly tested though, I was thinking about the Tops, where Benny is currently hiding, as well the NCR embassy and maybe Camp McCarran. I think all 3 should be used to rule out anything accidental. Can't make a decision if we don't know what it does, now can we?

Anyway

WCBOS- reasonable
Lyons'- dislike them, abomination to the BOS
MWBOS- AWESOME
Barnaky's MWBOS- XTRA AWESOME

(Well, time for my opinion......I know it will be a interesting, but we have to respect peoples opinions without bashing......

For the West Coast: The Brotherhood needs to gets it's head out of it's [censored]. Yea i can see them raiding and taking tech from those that are causing trouble or not using it properly, but it is taking tech from everyone that led them to this stupid war with the NCR, and the near destruction of the Western chapters. Yes their Mission is to protect technology from the lesser people who would use it wrong, or to use it for evil purposes. There are ways that some of the Western Brotherhood could make peace with the NCR ( i will not give away that spoiler), but the rest could use that as a prime example that they do not need to fight over stupid reasons.

For the Midwest: I will state again, if the General [censored] ending becomes canon, i will never forgive the people who made the Fascist ending Canon, The Brotherhood should not, and should never be at the whims of a Fascist general, especially one who gives his brain to a calculator and makes the middle of the country a fascist state. I would sooner see the West and East Brotherhood crush the Fascist state if it became canon, i would sooner see Caesar's Legion take over the Fascist state, heck i would sooner the Master or Enclave come back to crush the Fascist state i hate Fascism that much! If there was an ending i would like to see Canon, and to see make sense, It would be the Calculator destroyed, and the Brotherhood acting as it should, fighting to survive as it should, with small steps and slow progress helping people, taking initiates to bolster their numbers, no easy ways to restore things or to bring things back with the aid of an all powerful machine.

For the East: After the capture of the Purifier, and the attack on Adams, more than likely as Canon favors positive results, Lyons came out of this weakened but victorious. But with recruiting and the Purifier, he will be able to build the CWBoS to a very effective fighting force. It will take years to do it properly, but with the tech they got from the Enclave, and now that they know where the Super Mutants are coming from, they will be able to eventually control that threat. However, there is still the Rift with the Outcasts, and i do not know if Lyons and Casdin will be able to patch things up, or if the Outcasts are even still in the Capital Wasteland at this point. It should be added that the Last Maxson, Arthur Maxson is under Lyons care, and considering how he is learning to be a leader from Lyons, things should be interesting in the future when Arthur returns west, if there is a west to return to.

well, if there is anything to be learned, or that i have learned, the Brotherhood has a unique dynamic system and organization that cannot be summed up in a quick statement to me. But their unique way of trying to follow a Codex( of which if there is a copy of that anywhere, i would love to see that) of morals and principals, and use that to champion themselves as, depending on how the individual person sees them, devil or savior, hoarder or protector, regardless, they are to me in a land that has gone insane, warriors that are sorely needed to keep Order from Chaos . Whether or not they are Light or Dark, that is up to the writers, and the people's opinions.) :fallout:

It seems many are quick to assume that the ending in which Barnaky sacrifices his brain to the Calculator is canon. While the high-level events of Tactics have been recognized by Bethesda to be canon, this would not include what became of the Midwestern chapter in the ending of Tactics. It should be noted that if the good-reputation ending was completed, a member of The Warrior's squad is sacrificed. Instead of Barnaky's fascist-like rule that results in the extermination and forced labor of non-humans, all of the races of the wasteland, ghoul, super mutants, deathclaws, etc., disbanded their prejudices and worked together for the greater good of a wasteland utopia. This would also mean that the Mutant Liberation Army was never created, as the mutants would never have lived in harsh oppression under Barnaky.

Also, perhaps the deals made with villages and tribes for recruitment, food and labor weren't so demanding or aggressive by this Midwestern chapter. The chapter offered advanced medicines and protection from hostile raiders and bandits, to which I assume at least a handful of the villages or tribes were thankful for.

It is in my opinion that the developers meant for the game to end with canonically good terms, with no fascist-like rule. However, since Bethesda never confirmed any of the endings, I believe the morality of this Brotherhood chapter is open to speculation.

No Ending of Tactics is Canon, yet :shifty:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZcpcO7C58 is the best ending IMO. It fits with what we learned about the MWBoS in Fallout 3. That "they have fallen on hard times."

It will give us new things.

1: A brotherhood that is darker. They help humans (Ones under their "protection") but are against Mutation which the Western and Eastern Brotherhood are also against. They would not be like the Enclave were they only want pure blood humans. If you look human you are human. They share technology with those that are under their "protection." No other Brotherhood does this. With Lyons you still have to join and they control that water from project purity.

2: It will put Ghouls, Super Mutants and other mutations in a more active role but by the time the game takes place it would be more of a story lesson.

I also want to point out that the MWBoS don't have PA for every member, only the Elite members and Generals get PA. Also the MWBoS had deathcamps/work camps long before the Ending. They also used POWs to move a radioactive nuke across the country which in the end killed the POWs. "War is Hell Brother!"

Idea I hade for plot: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1147247-factions-you-would-like-to-see-in-fallout-4/page__st__160__p__16920878#entry16920878

West Coat: Pompous jerks sitting on their butts underground hoarding tech? No thank you


Mid West: Haven't played enough Tactics to have a opinion. But from what I've seen they are my favorite BoS


East Coast: Giving hand outs to try to fix the problem? No thank you


Outcasts: Just plain jerks. I kill them all on all but one play though. Then I killed them.

I am a full on Mr House supporter. Otherwise, I would go with NCR. Or the Enclave. But both of those would be desperate situation choices.

( OH Heck No! You want to have Death Camps in the Midwest because it puts mutants and others in a more active role? It makes the Brotherhood more Darker? I read enough about it to dislike this fascist attitude really badly to the point i never want to play the game period! Add to the fact people want the General [ explicit long censored] ending, it makes me sick! I really hope for the ending with the Calculator's destruction, for the game NEEDS it, badly! That is the ending that makes the most sense, they do not have to be uber dark, after all, their attitudes can change in time, look at their attitude toward super mutants after the master died.

While i understand your liking of a darker MWBoS, i do not see it happening. All i ask is you and others be careful, your opinions are now getting to the point where people are believing the general [censored] ending as canon, and that is not right, and that could be dangerous.) :unsure:

Paladin John I did not mean to offend you. Fact is the MWBoS had Gulags before the ending with General Barnaky. They also used POWs to transport a radioactive nuke which caused the POWs to die. They also forced settlements to give up their best and brightest for brotherhood training.

The Barnaky ending causes the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZcpcO7C58 which will give mutations a more active role. Humans, Ghouls, Super Mutants all working together. Second BoS no matter where they are hate super mutants. Even Lyons. They even kill ghouls.

Original Western BoS are isolationist closed mined people and Lyon's BoS are Stupid White Knights. MWBoS took an active role, they saw the need to rebuild things and take control of the people. What better way to make sure they don't get their hands on Weapons Tech then controlling them? They saw the need for new blood. Its not that hard to believe that some were against the idea of allowing mutations. One step to far seeing as how the brotherhood don't like Mutations. Barnaky Coming back form the dead and controlling Vault Zero comes to power. He wants to help humans but does not like Mutations.

BoS under Barnaky still help people just for a price. The MWBoS want new blood but they are not like Veronica.

I think this is something that alot of people don't realize. The Brotherhood are not much better than the Enclave ("better" being a relative term, I support the Enclave and what they do) in terms of their hatred towards ghouls. Prehaps the Brotherhood don't go out of their way to kill them, but they pretty much shoot ghouls (feral or otherwise) and other mutants on sight, especially the "white knights" of Lyon's BoS.

You are right Lt. Andronicus. The Brotherhood don't like Mutations. As long as you look human and don't have any mutations you pass as human. Enclave go deep on a DNA level brotherhood does not. Even Lyons killed alot of mutations at the Pitt.

Roger Maxson the man that founded the brotherhood saw the effects of FEV on people at Meriposa which caused him to rebel and kill the scientist there. The dislike of mutations is ingrained in the Brotherhood from the start.

Only reason why the MWBoS let mutations join was because they were at war and they needed all the help they could get. Seeing as how they were made up of those that wanted change there would be some that are ok with Mutations and some like Barnaky that are not ok. Barneky becomes head elder and puts a stop to letting mutations in to the brotherhood.

MWBoS may also hold the key to curing the sterility problem in super mutants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY

( I am not offended, nor was i.......Until you called Lyons group "Stupid White Knights". I think Lyons group is on the right course to saving the Brotherhood, and you and a lot of people call them stupid! They do the right thing to help people and restore the capital wasteland and their stupid! They are not Fascist despots who have gulags and death camps, round up Ghouls, Super mutants, and Deathclaws, and experiment on them like Nazis, and their STUPID! Ok, here is the overall Brotherhood position on mutants:

Attitude towards mutants:

The Brotherhood's attitude towards mutants ranges from dislike (e.g. in the case of ghouls) to outright hostility (in the case of super mutants). Early contact with the Master's super mutants was mostly hostile, and the BoS helped drive the majority of the mutant armies away from California. The Brotherhood grew angry when various saluaging operations began in the Glow, a location which the Brotherhood came to regard highly both for their fallen comrades and the pre-Great War technology located there, with Dayglow ghouls at the forefront. Most Brotherhood members came to see ghouls as filthy scavengers. In the years after the Master's defeat in the Core Region, many super mutants settled peacefully among humans and the Brotherhood was no longer hostile to them.

Now As Styles pointed out, the MWBoS took a different approach, but while i am not happy with the approaches they took, nor am I happy that they took these approaches, it is better to take this approach via a way of an open minded approach to begin with, and not by making a narrow minded Bigot like Barnaky Elder or General. Furthermore, depending on a all knowing calculator is not right, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYS_Bo2ixNg, that is too easy to depend on the Calculator, Humanity has to learn in small steps, not in "Giant Calculator Aided" steps, and certainly not repeat the lessons we fought and died for back in the 40's with the Barnaky ending, as the MWBoS is no better than them without naming them in that ending.

Now i know the CWBoS is not perfect, they dislike Ghouls, and hate Super Mutants for what the Super Mutants have done, but in the end, it only goes with the general Brotherhood attitude toward mutants, and who said the individual has to follow those hatreds about ghouls at least, super mutants i can see( except for Fawkes and Uncle Leo of course), and there has not been a smart Deathclaw spotted in the CW yet, so when there is, cool. And the west is the west, i do not see them changing anytime soon. But my point is because it is mutant, and the brotherhood may see it, it may depend on the situation on how to react to it, not "it's a mutant, shoot it!")

All Brotherhood shoot ghouls on sight. Sure they may not go out of their way to hunt and kill them but if they come across them they will. They hate Super Mutants. Lyons killed off the people of pittsburgh for being to mutated.

The work camps of the MWBoS are mostly filled with raiders and slavers so its their way of dealing with criminals. They did start letting mutations join which goes against the brotherhood policy toward mutations. Now its not hard to see that not all those within the MWBoS were happy with this, seeing it as a step to far. MWBoS are doing the next logical step that Lyons might someday do. They take control of settlements and they do help. They share tech but they arn't going to just hand it over for free.

Now Barnaky does not like Mutations so he stops letting mutations into the brotherhood. He treats them like humans in the wasteland treat them. There was a mission cut form the game called "Springfield" and in that the mayor talks about how "ghouls are second class and so on." Barnaky's actions would cause the down fall of the MWBoS which explains "Fallen on hard times" we learned about in Fallout 3. It would also give us "The Mutant Liberation Army."

MWBoS have also been around 80 years before Lyons, he was not even born when they formed. No other ending to Tactics would explain how they went from a large group bigger then just a chapter. A group that allowed outsiders and even mutations and then taking control of the Calculator, to small group outside of Chicago. Which I hope they are still a very big group but just in hidding.

Even if they go with the ending were they did not gain control of the Calculator there would be no reason why they "have fallen on hard times." They let in outsiders and mutations and have been around for 80 years. They have bases across the Midwestern United States. From Chicago to Colorado Springs. The only ending to Tactics which would explain their "down fall" is the Barnaky Ending.

This is the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel's policy ===> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY.