Likely, if you re just you average Nord in Skyrim joining the Legion, you likely will not deal with Tulius in any point in the war.

And that is irrelevant, because we're talking about the people of Skyrim, who have no dealings with Rikke at all. Not the player. All the common man likely knows of is Elisif and the General that the Empire sent.

The average people have no dealing with Tulius either.

I have no dealings with Obama, but I know him. Guarantee more people know about Obama compared to Joe Biden. Same thing here.

Most people likely know more about Ulfric than Tulius because Ulfric wants it that way. Tulius has no real dealing with people other than being the general of the legion. Likely nobody but Rikke and us players know anything that goes on behind the doors of Castle Dour.

First, that reasoning fails since Ulfric wants a lot of things a lot of ways and doesn't always get it. Such as, wanting Skyrim to be independent. In other words, Ulfric does not have sole control of who the people knows.

Second, the topic wasn't if the people knew about how Tullius was.

You're kind of inching in on a point somewhere in there, so I'll help you out by saying Ulfric is the more popular and well known figure in this war. That is true. But, that does not mean that the people don't know about the Empire's supposedly "Best General" being sent to reclaim their lands for Cyrodiil. Would the people who are out farming know? Maybe, maybe not, but unless they choose a side, they don't matter in this equation.

But when they do choose a side and join the legion or the stormcloaks, you can almost guarantee they'll know who tullius is then at some point, which kills this point again.

Pretty much this, he's more than willing to learn about the Nord culture after the CW.

And me and him do have the same opinion as well about the very ever changing Nord sense of honor.

Yea, the fact that he actually changes is pretty nice. Considering, as you said, the game just stays the same in almost every aspect.

He's efficient at what he does and it's not his job to be nice.

I don't like him. But some of my characters do.

But what do people know about Tulius outside of his achievements and power in the legion? The only people who would know are Rikke and us the players. Your average citizen would know very little if anything outside of his offical capacity.

What achievements, first. And second, nothing, as long as Tullius stays smart and keeps those thoughts of his to himself. What's more important is the actions the people see of the empire as a whole, true.

But, since this topic is about what you think of Tullius, it's worth mentioning that he pretty much follows "Imperial Man's Burden".

Achievements are guaranteed if he is the best general in the legion. In the end, what I think of Tulius is what I said in my very first post, that he is a military man, not a diplomat, or a friend of the Nords first, but a general sent to end a rebellion that is a fire that empire wants put out.

When it comes down to it, the most important people the citizens need to know about are the Jarls.

The only person that says that is him, and he actually doesn't directly say that, even though it can be implied. He says he's the general they go to to solve problems. That could mean a number of things. And we've got nothing on him, for a man supposedly being the best general.

Anyway, it's fine that people see him as being a military man, because he is, even though he does occasionally, but not often, have to take on the role of diplomat as Skyrim's military governor. His relations with Elisif alone requires diplomacy in controlling her.

But I find it... not odd, not surprising... typical I guess. That people will ignore Tullius' words that can be seen as racism at worst, ethnocentrism at best, yet assume with very little supporting evidence that Ulfric is a forced mass exodus supporting and genocidal elf hating maniac waiting to happen.

I do not care about Tulius or Ulfric. I think that Ulfric is more stupid than racist or anything. I mean, there is an untapped military resource in his own city that he is not trying to appeal to. Tulius, as I said, is a military man, and is sent to do a military job, not a diplomatic one.

I don't understand this separation between "military" and "political."

Nobody rises to a high level of command in a military without displaying an understanding of people, including one's enemies. Generals (good ones, anyway) are politicians. Shall I name some names? Like Julius Caesar, George Washington, Ulysses Grant, Dwight Eisenhower...?

Tullius is a Military Governor. He is the face of the Empire in Skyrim.

In my estimation, he does it pretty badly.

But he was not really sent as a politician. He was sent as a military figure. Military governor, in my opinion, is more a military position than a real political figure.

You call that stupid when the Dunmer right in the beginning of the game when you enter Windhelm says "It's not our fight?" The Nords have complained in book that they don't support him. I'm sure more have asked, and they've likely refused. And Ulfric's gained enough support to still challenge tullius enough to threaten Whiterun.

If Ulfric were stupid, he wouldn't have taken half of Skyrim with one man's death. Stupid is being willing to let Ulfric take Whiterun for his frustration with the Jarl, and then only deciding otherwise because of his Legate. You said it yourself, Rikke is the real general here.

The only reason people make the separation is to try and ignore Tullius' negative points, plain and simple.

??? Tulius is not a political figure in truth. Does he make any political decisions? If being in charge of a military=being a political authority, then true.

Clearly no one ever does the same for Ulfric.

But on all seriousness, the character development for this game is bad. Every character is very static aside from a few, and all the difference is a line in dialog.

It mostly falls under Head-cannon to fill in the gaps for every character in Skyrim.

Clearly Ulfric is both political and Military. Tulius is like 90% military in the game.

Military governor that supercedes the Jarl who would be high queen, who negotiates treaties when that opportunity is presented then uses said opportunity to make gains in the war. Yes. It is political. He is not just a general.

See glargg's post for point on Generals having to deal in politics, and his examples given.

And one final point, Tullius is sent to represent the Emperor himself. And considering one of the lines people use to assume Tullius is the "best" general is this:

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000c3478

And considering the fact that we have no mention of Tullius serving as a general in the great war, it is plausible that the problems he's sent to fix aren't even military matters. It's also possible that the Emperor chooses him for political reasons that have gained Tullius his favor somehow.

Certainly makes sense when we have no battle leading history for him.

he is a general. The fact that I find only one instance of him making a political decision (the treaty you mentioned) I find Tulius is like 90% military and 10% governor.

Tulius sends more troops to camps than dealing with average citizen complaints.

Yeah, that's the biggest problem. It's hard to conduct a good serious forum quarrel when we have so little to work with!

Nope, because there's nothing to separate Ulfric from to ignore any points. No one denies he's a rebel leader trying to be king, and his faults are all assumed. That being his racism accusations, that is, which are the only faults that people really argue over. No one disagrees that he's not as experienced in leading men as Tullius. He was no general. No one denies that Ulfric can be short tempered. What flaws that are proven, are people denying Ulfric?

Ralof himself calls him a military governor.

And there's also the fact that in the treaty and otherwise, Elisif has to deal with him, which is a diplomatic endeavor. And even if that was his only instance, it still proves that diplomacy and politics is a part of his job, even if it isn't the largest part.

if it is a real small part, how important is it? Tulius does not even want to go to the summit, and just wants to crush the rebellion. seems less enthusiastic about the diplomatic and is more military than political to me. So I see him in the light of being what he is 90% of the time.