The Redguards were living on Tamriel for a good long time before Tiber Septim came along; long enough to develop a culture that is authentically Ra'Gada. So it isn't just a question of Imperialized modern redguards versus traditional Redguards.

Overgeneralized real life correlation ftw.

I recall seeing MK (I think) expressing disdain about how other writers sort of "converted" Akavir into a fake Asia and how he never intended them to be like that.

The Nords clearly were they use Scandanavian/Germanic names, drink mead and have meadhalls, they have beserkers, theyre great sailors and raiders, theyre from the North I could go on.

The Ragada probably don't like the Yoku who still live there, because they associate them with the sinking of Yokuda, which has forced the Ragada through a whole bunch of [censored].

http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/aldudagga.shtml

The truth is, the experiences an individual, let alone an entire race, will encounter throughout life can't be so cheaply quantified. The Akaviri are samurai is like saying the Africans are pirates.

There are actual Yokudans in a TES game? Like who?

Redguard; see the http://www.imperial-library.info/tsorg/part03.shtml segment. There are three: Hayle, a boy who had been killed by the Imperials; Coyle, his brother; and Saban, their mother.

People will continue to do it because it's easier for newcomers to understand the races by comparing them to parallels that they are familiar with. No one who isn't familiar with Elder Scrolls lore is going to know what an Imperial is, but they probably know something about Romans. So when they see Imperials, they're naturally going to think "Romans".



That's pretty irrelevant, because in the end, it's whatever makes its way into the game that is the true cannon. So if the writers for the game say Akavir is Not-Asia, then it's not Asia.



While what we've seen of the Akaviri seems to have a definite Japanese inspiration, with things like katanas and the like, I always assumed that Akavir is a combination of various Asian cultures, maybe Tseasci are pretty Japanese (As in like Samurai and all that, of course, not modern Japanese pop-culture) but the other Akaviri races are based on other Asian cultures, most likely, at least some sort of Chinese based race (Which is in itself a generalization, since with the size of what we now call China and its long history "Chinese" in this case can cover a pretty wide range of things. but since when looking for inspirations for fantasy races in real cultures writers tend to use the theme park version anyway, it works.)

All this being said, though, many Elder Scrolls cultures are definately based on real life ones, but they aren't necessarily based entirely on one culture, and beyond the obvious parallels like "Imperials = Romans", things tend to be a bit more subtle, and there's actually room for debate on exactly which culture's they're based on. And some of the completely fictional races are probably also in part based on stereotypical fantasy races, just played with a bit to make them seem less generic.



Well, I agree, because I've seen lots of minotaurs and unicorns in real life, so it has that effect on me too.

But of course, seeing lots of elves running around never had the seem effect as seeing minotaurs and unicorns.

I like how that statement has the undertones of calling the Obscure texts irrelevant... -_-

Is Saban speaking Yokudan?

You can compare the Obscure texts to the directors cut of lore. After the directors is done, the editor has a good at the movie. Things might be thrown out of movie due to time, budget or technical constraints. Or perhaps because the test audience didn't like parts of it. The directors cut still shows the movie it was originally envisioned.

You might say that the editors cut is the true lore, but it doesn't show the whole story and often for reasons unrelated to the story. Now if it doesn't show the whole story, how can it be true?

While you know I don't disagree with you about the Obscure Texts, your anology is quite flawed - MK and his likes are not the directors, they are the writers. After their job is done, both the director and the producers will have their say, which could change things quite drastically. And, even if the director says the Akaviri isn't Asian, the producers might say that they are, and force the director to agree, and coerce the director into altering his "vision".
That being said, MK isn't the only writer of TES, even if he is by far the most interesting and best of the lot, and his word does not make something final - the other writers, as well as designers and producers, might very well go "But we want Akavir to be the Wutai of TES!" and get their vision through, even if it means that the world becomes a more boring and generic place. It's a group effort, after all.
Point is, neither the writers, directors, or producers "vision" carries more weight than the others (which is why anyone who really wants to make his "vision" come true makes sure he is at least two of those, and all of them to be certain), and none of them can really be declared "canon". Which is why I also don't like the concept of canon, I'd rather leave all sources open and chose whatever I want to chose from them, whether it's Obscure Texts, the game itself, or a spin off mobile game that were only made to make a quick buck. Funny enough, more than often it ends up being the Obscure stuff :dance:

Nice new avatar by the way.

You can believe in-game (without the books) oblivion is the true depiction of the elder scrolls.

I'd just like to know how you reason it through. You've got to be more adept at mental gymnastics than people who believe the world is flat and 4000 years old.

If they got that ability because they are foreign they should have a weakness for diseases, not a resistance....

Was that aimed towards me? Because if so, I think you misunderstood my post.

Redguards = Muslims. Or at least those in Hammerfell.

Muslim refers to a religion, not a distinct civilization (as in, confined to a particular time period with distinctive architecture, people groups, government arrangement, etc.). :shakehead:

Not quite, actually. By that I mean that Hammerfell Redguards have a culture that is similar to much of the ancient and medieval Muslim world, including the Middle East, part of the Indian subcontinent, Turkey, and northern Africa. I suppose you could also call them Arabs, but they do seem to have influences beyond the Arabian Peninsula. Also, their culture does have influence from the religion. They have mosques. No, not domed buildings with minarets, mosques. They're called that, play Daggerfall.

And, to be a Grammar Nazi, "Muslim" refers to the practitioners of a religion. It's "Islam" that refers to a religion.

I'm sorry but that's just as silly as Nords being Vikings.

Yeah, I looked it up on Wikipedia. It still refers to religious stuff (yeah, the follower - of a religion).

What you are talking about is the architecture. The societies are VERY different. For instance, women in Hammerfell have rights, they can fight and hold positions of authority. None of the clothing is similar, none of the religious structures of authority are similar at all. The areas of the world you just described encompass many distinct people groups and civilizations. It would be as if you said the Bretons are similar to Europe. Well, Germany is very different from France, which is different from Italy, which is different from Spain. And even within those countries there are differences among the people, traditions, laws, etc.

What I mean is in general, they take much of their inspiration from the Muslim world, at least the western view of it. I agree that they are by no means exactly the same, but I would never say that they do not have influence. They worship in mosques, live in the desert, and ride camels, making them a clear parallel to stereotypes of these cultures. Look at some of the cities, too: Isfemiret? Ramasta-Korom? Akhulah? All of these sound at least vaguely like they would come from these cultures. I never said they're literally Muslims in every way, but they are clearly based on them. The OP was wondering what the big deal was, and you were discussing influences on the Redguards, so I wanted to point out that there is SOME inspiration from the Muslim world. But I did not say they are completely so. "Redguards = Muslims" was basically a simplified hyperbole, if anything else.

Well, what if the inspiration is Persia? Or Babylon? Or Egypt? The religion "Islam" didn't exist until about 600 AD or so.

It would be more accurate to say "Arab" as the term denotes ethnicity as opposed to religious orientation.

so do the many other peoples that are not of islamic orientation. there are deserts of every continent after all.


see above. camels have been domesticated since the 3rd millennium BCE, a long time before anyone even thought of monotheistic religion.

procedurally generated w/o any proper lore backing.

i think what youre really trying to say is "their buildings look like those of the middle east," because there is very little cultural connection. the fact that their house of worship called a "mosque" does not mean that their religion is anything like islam, in fact, i dont think i can think of a single parallel. their relationship with outsiders, their view of gender roles... just about everything is different. only architecture is similar.


what you said was "Redguards = Muslims," which means that they are identical in every way. you did not say "redguards are inspired in part by middle eastern peoples" or even "redguards are like muslims," but "redguards ARE muslims"

saying things like this is NOT helpful in ANY way, and is likely to confuse newbies into thinking that Redguards are going to suicide bomb the Imperial City (since were talking muslim stereotypes here....)

A good example why the culture generalization isn't really a good idea and won't take you very far.

Anytime you'll find one correlation, someone else more knowledgeable in the lore can find a reason why your claim isn't as substantial as you think it is. And when you really get down to it, you're doing a great disservice overgeneralizing the TES cultures in such a manner.

For some reason, I'm starting to hate the "Akavir is Asia" thing more now....

I always figured That imperials, bretons, and redguards were all just humans

They are. They just have differences:

Bretons are half elvish.
Redguards don't have Tamrielic origins.
Nords don't (have FULL Tamrielic origins) either; they came from Atmora. I recall debates in the past that puts forth the idea that Nedes, a race of "proto" humans native to Tamriel, are ancestors to the current Nords. But alas, I'm not too well versed in such matters.
Imperials literally did not exist until Talos' apotheosis. Once again, ideas have been postulated that state that Imperials are an amalgamation of native humans and Atmorans. I don't know too much about that either.