The Enclave's definition of mutants (anybody with any chromosomal damage or exposure to FEV, even to gain an immunity to it as the only change) and their policies on dealing with them are horrific and reprehensible. It's no better than when people claimed that anybody who wasn't white was just some form of ape, not a person. They then further claimed that said 'fact' meant that the non-whites had no Constitutional rights, and that the bible gave them the right to do anything they wanted with/to them.

I'll certainly trust an insane Protectron in a wig before I trust the Enclave.

What;'s so horrific about reclaiming the land from mutants and giving it back to the people who built it? Just because all men are created equal, it doesn't mean that they stay equal after the nukes, does it? Who knows what pathological horrors lie dormant in the irradiated population?

Do we? I don't think all us Brits think that way, and besides, you know what they said about assumptions don't you? The mother of all....

Plus don't forget that Fallout has a 1950's cold-war mentality (as far as I know) and that would mean that, when the bombs fell atleast, there was a fear of a communist invasion and just a fear of communism in general (threats both foreign and domestic). The US government used massive amounts of propaganda to coerce the masses in the media, black flag operations, hightened surveilance, a decrease of civil liberties, an increased distrust of foreigners based on exaggerated security reports. We haven't got any of that stuff happening today... well apart from in the middle-east :rolleyes: Maybe you are guilty of "cherry picking" aspects of the US and ignoring the less attractive aspects. Personally I think the Enclave's ideologies are a good representation of the Governing bodies in the US and pretty much any imperialistic super power from the modern age, Britain included.



Edit: Because I'm an R-turd. Typo.

Most of us are roleplayers. Bethesda games are rather roleplay-friendly.

i agree to a point i make these same arguments in my classes but replace BoS and ENCLAVE with real life groups so yea i am role playing but using real life arguments but i totally agree with the bethesda comment

If the Enclave was only targeting super mutants, I would agree with its goals. If it was targeting ghouls and super mutants, I would not agree with it, but could maybe live with them: yes, the "sentient" ghouls like Gob and Snowflake would suffer, but it would serve a greater good. However, the Enclave are targeting all but a very small minority of humanity. It's the Holocaust, magnified to horrific proportions. And that is why I oppose the Enclave and all like them.


QUOTE: Back in the days of horseback riding, the very founders of the US considered the possibility of the US becoming what the Enclave is and consequently made the second amendment part of the core laws. Just for reference, the second amendment says that if the sitting government is no longer pursuing policies to ensure the freedom of the people then the people are quite free to form militias and take down the government. Essentially, I'm merely following a notion created by the founding fathers.

Part right. I think you've read too much of the anti-gunners' propagenda that the 2nd Amendment is a collective right, and it is most assuredly not. It is an individual right. It does not establish the right of cities, states, or communities to form militias, but rather the individual citizen to keep and bear arms. This is the most efficient means of controlling tyrants: if Hitler's Gestapo had met a stream of 8mm Mauser rounds every time they kicked down the door of a Jewish household, they would be a laughingstock today.


QUOTE: I suppose I give my support to places rather than groups. Places like Megaton, Little lamplight, Big Town, and Arefu, where people are trying form relations again, start families, make friends. These people while doing all this may seem ineffectual to all of you with your grand schemes and master plans to save humanity, but it is these people that are making humanity worth saving.

Indeed. And it is the faction I support, the Regulators, that fights for these people's right to exist, free from fear. The raiders would kill and terrorize them. the slavers would enslave them. Col. Autumn would effectively enslave do the same. Eden would simply wipe them out, for his so-called "greater good". And the muties would ingest them.

Many of these townspeople are sheep, in a world crawling with wolves. The Brotherhood and Regulators are the sheepdogs, hunting and destroying the wolves so that the sheep can live in peace. Nothing could be more noble.

i love it when people actually pull out some intellectuall argument you dont see enough of that in todays society

I loled at that..

The enclave are NOT tolitarian, nor racist... they allow any PURE HUMAN in their ranks. Anybody with a mutation is NOT a human. I bet that if you actually lived in Fallout, you would want all the mutated freaks killed.

The enclave is noble, they are fighting every day to bring back what the commies took away, they are not racist, just regular HUMANS doing a noble task.

God bless the Enclave, God bless America.

Decent men like Lucas Simms, Three Dog, Father Clifford, Diego, and Daring Dashwood. Good women like Sierra, Moira, Lucy West, Angela Staley, Agatha, Dr. Li, Red, and Kimba. Kids like C. J., Maggie, Zip, Lucy, Joseph, Bumble, and Bryan. The Enclave wants them dead, just for their so-called "greater good". If that's patriotism, I have no use for it.

This one is actually good..HA!

Do you know what is the difference between http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3574/3359szympans.jpg and http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/4930/jonathanrosssuper.jpg?
1.24% DNA...(you know humans got this FOXP2 gen which is responsible for human talkin etc.) When you JUST look at both of them you can see a gigatic difference, right?

Now then.What is the difference between humans and so called PURE humans in FO3? 6th finger? :blink:
I think its not a big deal if we talkin about dna.

So then,everything what Enclave deserved is a fury kick in da ars so they bang the moon and never come back.

epic post is epic :woot:

well for every mutant out there bar 2 of them, are out to kill me, you, and every other human out there.
with the rest of the humans effected with the FEV, its only a matter of time before infected DNA
becomes mutated DNA. so I just save everybody a headache and kill on site.

Demoralize the enemy from within by surprise, terror, sabotage, assassination. This is the war of the future.
Generals think war should be waged like the tourneys of the Middle Ages. I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries.
Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice.

One spends its time flinging poop and making stupid noises, the other is a chimpanzee.


Really, your post only serves to prove our point. Such a minor difference in genetics can cause such huge differences in the lifeform. That's why any tiny genetic mutation has the capability to lead on to something bigger and much worse. Those aberrations need to be purged from the gene pool.

Maybe the Enclave should shift some of its views. Declare some temporary peace with the BoS to get rid of the Super Mutants, and if that doesn't work, start supplying both sides, possibly turn some of the already present factions against each other. Your main opposition is the BoS, no? They have a lot on their plate already with the super mutants, when they start making headway into that problem, supply the Ghouls with weapons to make sure that the sure to be increasing clashes between the Ghouls and BoS are as deadly as possible. Tensions between the Outcasts and Lyon's BoS are already strained, so why not tip them over the edge? You've got to realize that you can't take them on, they know the lay of the land too well, and they have the will of the people to support them, so divide them. It's obvious that conventional engagements have not ended well in the past, so why waste valuable manpower?

I'm an Enclave and I am allied with the Treeminders because I believe Harold is the key to re-population of the country. Long Live Eden!

God bless you fellow enclaver.

Maybe the Enclave should take over Oasis and with their advanced American tech, they could reproduce the trees and repopulate the earth!!

Anyways, yes, even the people with small mutations MUST be eliminated, humans must repopulate the earth.

And which DNA profile is the Enclave going to consider to be 'pure'? Keep in mind that every single day, tens of thousands of cells in a 'pure' human undergo mutation. Most of the time, those cells are exterminated and replaced by the other cells, but they still mutated. Can you afford to take the chance? Some humans are born that will never, ever have to go through the removal of wisdom teeth, because they are 'mutants'. Other than that simple change that improves their life and potentially survivability, they are just like everyone else. But genetically different. By Enclave standards, they have to die.

How long before the Enclave revises that defination of what acceptable DNA is? Only one skin color, one hair color, one eye color, one height? A homogeneous society is an easily led society, after all.

Take, for example, Lucy West. Her whole life, she has been exposed to trace amounts of airborne FEV, and constant background radiation. Based upon study of her, she has acquired a mild resistance to FEV mutation, and an innate tolerance for radiation that would kill most Enclave members without immediate medical attention. Other effects? None that are detectable with readily available equipment. Psychologically, she's a well adjusted young woman who cares deeply about her family. Yet the Enclave wants her dead as a 'mutant'.

For all their rhetoric, the Enclave is lazy and power-hungry, nothing else. And need we delve into the case of Frank Horrigan as a further demonstration of the true nature of the Enclave?

These cases, and others similar have led me to the inevitable conclusion that the Enclave is no more noble than raiders and slavers. I hold the Hubologists in higher esteem, and I shoot them on sight, the brainwashing lunatics.

I am a Regulator and a Ranger, if your an evil person exploiting the weak be warned, i will find you, i will end you, you and your little [censored] buddies. So prey upon the helpless if you dare. You are the disease and the only cure is hot silent lead which i shall deliver in due time. Hide behind your walls, guns and buddies, you are going to need them, because the only time you will know i am around is just after my 2 silenced 10mm slugs tear open your face and you get to review your short crappy evil existence before the light in your eyes fades for ever, embrace oblivion.

Asai

You anti-American communist!!!!!!!

Everybody with even a "slight" mutation is NOT a human you communist. They are a mutant, and should be dealt as such.

Your argument has no basis, the beutiful Enclave allows ANY pure human in their ranks. If you kill one of their men, you see Black people, white, aisan, women, all sorts of people. The Enclave allows ANY HUMAN in their ranks.

God bless the Enclave, God Bless America

The ENCLAVE???

What an awful decision... be a rebel my man!
Anything but that big phony "President" Eden

Jeez-a-mo

:)

You anti-American traitor!!!

How can you kill Americans you terrorist! WHY do you dare kill the very people who want to rebuild this once great nation?? Oh boy, we will return the favor, when we catch you and your rebel communist buddies.

We are not evil, YOU are. Regulators MURDER, do they not? The enclave does not murder because anybody with a Radiation induced mutation is NOT A HUMAN. You commies kill each other and further destroy America.

God Bless the Enclave, God Bless America.

the raiders are A TERRORIST faction so anybody killing them is doin a small service to america though in the future leave it to the enclave

Enclave! .. isn't it obvious?

<-

Would you care for a genetic profile? I'm sure your precious Enclave has the technology. Should be able to find several thousand mutations of your DNA. Different ones every day, in fact. Only way to avoid that is to be dead. As for the rest of your brainwashed rhetoric, I'm a constitutionalist, not a communist. Of course, that's probably just as bad to the Enclave. Of the People, By the People, For the People? All men created equal? Inalienable rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness? Free speech, free religion, free press, freedom from unlawful search and seizure, freedom from spurious/political incarceration?

There's no such thing as what you all keep calling a 'pure' human. Because there is no singular DNA profile that is base human. I take it that genetics is a class prohibited in your 'beautiful' Enclave?

I'll admit that Super Mutants and Centaurs are not human. Though they exist solely because of the Enclave's actions. Ghouls, however, are victims. Perhaps someday a treatment can be found to reverse their condition, though I suspect that the quantity of Radaway and Stimpaks that will be required to restore their physical health and standard functioning will be a logistical nightmare.

To those who stand against the Enclave, I offer one singular piece of advice. "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

QUOTE: I am a Regulator and a Ranger, if your an evil person exploiting the weak be warned, i will find you, i will end you, you and your little [censored] buddies. So prey upon the helpless if you dare. You are the disease and the only cure is hot silent lead which i shall deliver in due time. Hide behind your walls, guns and buddies, you are going to need them, because the only time you will know i am around is just after my 2 silenced 10mm slugs tear open your face and you get to review your short crappy evil existence before the light in your eyes fades for ever, embrace oblivion.

Same here, except in my case, it's a bolt of plasma. Nothing like seeing a mutie, centaur, or raider dissolve into a pile of lumionescent green goo.