Ok, here are some other arguments:

1. DO you want America Back?:

I am sure that EVERYBODY wants America back, if you dont, shame shame shame.

2. DO you want values?:

The Enclave is the ONLY group that has kept America alive over the long years. Hell, they even have elections and a congress!! Does the BOS have a republic? Do the raiders? Slavers? NO!! The NCR is the only group that I support besides the Enclave. I can see an alliance between the ENclave the NCR in the near future.

3. DO you like the Wasteland?

I am 100% positive that people hate the wastes. Who wants dull grey and brown? Who wants to be mauled by a yao-gui or killed by a raider? Noone! I don't want to be sold a slave for some anti-American terrorist! I want LAW AND ORDER. The enclave are perfect for this role. They have people stationed all over the wastes.

4. DO the Wastelanders have Rights?

NO!! They are always scared of death or slavery.. The Enclave will return safety and rights to the world.

TRY TO ARGUE THESE!


God Bless the Enclave, God Bless America!

But the people out there are Americans just as much as the Enclavers are. Forcing them into one man's vision of what the US should be is not right and has nothing to do with resurrecting America.


No. The Enclave is the most advanced faction remaining and the one that resembles America of 2070, but it is not remotely "America". America is a country of values and ideals or it is nothing, and right now the Enclave isn't exactly showing the required dedication to those ideals that America was founded upon.


Do they? How many Wastelanders have they killed over the years, directly and indirectly? Or is that an act of virtue as well? Heck, name on virtous thing the Enclave has done. Just one. Or your precious Colonel Autumn, for that matter.


Then they should start out with fixing the pollution, ending the FEV, undo or water down the existing FEV-caused mutations, and use some of that brilliant tech of theirs to help sustain the Wastelanders. Instead they're doing the complete opposite and have been for their entire existence.


Maybe? Wait and see? While the Enclavers are sitting on their asses to the tune of Wastelanders dying, only occasionally getting off their asses to sabotage Wastelander efforts to improve the situation? To hell with waiting. The Enclave has had 200 years to figure out some way of contributing and the grand total of their achievements is zero. The Enclave isn't here to help or assist in any way, only to enslave and rule, and Autumn is no exception.

Read

With pleasure, Alex.


Not at any cost. I want the American ideals of liberty, peace, and pursuit of happiness back. If that means killing off the last remnants of everything that was wrong with America then so be it. The Enclave may be the heirs of what used to be the US government, but the government is not the country.


The Enclave has done squat to keep America alive other than sitting with their thumbs up their asses while praising themselves for being the surviving US of A and trying to come up with new ways to kill everybody not on that platform. As for the alleged Enclave democracy, I call [censored]. Eden has been the president ever since the Chosen One blew up their old base (which was required to stop them from sending the FEV-poison into the atmosphere, thereby killing everybody). That doesn't sound all that much in tune to the idea of presidential term limitations, does it? But let's just suppose, merely for the sake of argument, that there is democracy in the Enclave. This means that all the Enclavers generally supported FEV experimentation, they supported doing nothing to help their "fellow Americans", they supported trying to slaughter anyone exposed to the environment which the Enclave played a crucial part in creating, they support using humans as slave labor whenever a project requires manual work, they support using captured Wastelanders for human experiments, and they support the continued struggle to exterminate anyone not genetically clean.

If you're going to argue that the Enclave is a democracy then you'll have to deal with the fact that Eden has been elected many times.

Finally, alliance with the NCR? Are you kidding me? You think the people of California don't know how close they came to death at the hands of the Enclave? Why on Earth would they ever want to ally with you lot?


And what of the people of Redding? What of the people of Arroyo? Do you think they prefer being dead or mutated to being alive in the wasteland?


Funny you should say this, because the Wastelanders do have rights. They have, among other things, the right to make a life for themselves without Enclave interference. It would be nice if the Enclave actually cared enough about democracy to accept this, but of course they don't. The Enclave wants to exterminate all the "impure" humans and Autumn's Friendly Enclave is a fantasy at best.

Yes, let's do this. Something I had been unwilling to do before, but now I see value in it. Let's recount the demonstrations that the Enclave made to the American People just two decades ago, shall we?

#1 - Used slave labor to reopen Mariposa Military Base, and work the FEV vats. Retreated after causing a massive surge in super mutant population, but kept one super mutant. This super mutant was given power armor with integrated plasma cannon and some form of blade, brainwashed, and turned loose upon the people.

#2 - Opened Vault 13, and killed every man woman and child inside because there was background radiation. Replaced them with genetically engineered sentient Deathclaws.

#3 - Kidnapped the populace of the village of Arroyo to test the FEV poison on.

#4 - Traded laser weapons to the Salvatore crime family in exchange for slaves.

#5 - Attempted to exterminate every man, woman, and child who had ever been exposed to any amount of FEV or radiation, with a global bioweapon.

#6 - Returned to Vault 13 and killed all the Deathclaws they put there, after the Deathclaws decided as a group that they wanted to stop killing things for the Enclave, and learn to read.

No, the Enclave is not friendly, they are not America. At least not any America that the Founding Fathers would accept.

IMMEDIATE FIELD PROMOTION

Thank you sir.

We should really make an official Enclave Thread stating what we belive in. That would be cool.

Wow! That is pretty cartoon-style horrible, alright. I guess I need to get off my duff and play the first 2 games...

...but I just preordered NV, so I think I'll be waiting 'til mid October and wasting enjoying a few hundred hours of my life looking to see if the Enclave does even one useful thing to redeem themselves just the tiniest bit.

Actually, maybe it's too late already.

deathclaw.

Now what did I say about brainwashing in the Enclave? Alex hasn't answered a single thing, he puts forth a fairly incoherent argument that is refuted by myself and completely shot to pieces by Silent93, and what do you do, you promote the guy! :banghead:

The challange remains. Name one good thing the Enclave has done for humanity. I'm willing to accept "sat on their asses and didn't [censored] up anything for almost a century after the great war" as a positive thing, by the way, assuming you're willing to admit that not doing anything for decades is the most helpful thing the Enclave has ever done.

I am NOT brainwashed. I have taken the time to think what I belive.

Alright, I want you to tell me what YOUR plan to rebuild is......

Alright, tell me, who would rebuild America and how? The BOS? Fat chance... The slavers? Nope. The raiders? Hell no. You cannot expect to say "I am remaking America" and expect all the factions to agree, without somesort of hard work or hard dissisions. Its like saying "I want to make this house, but without lifting a finger." Really?

To remake America, you MUST use force to control the populace, or else nothing would happen. Your plan involves rebuilding America with everyone.. Really? The slavers and Raiders would shoot your men with bullets before helping you rebuild America. The mutants would massacre you, the ghouls would assume your a bigot and shoot you. Now, if the Enclave took them all out, then things would be MUCH easier.

Leave it up to the free market and private enterprise to get things done for now. With the Purifier active and working, the radiation will become less of a problem and the settlements are likely to grow. Bigger settlements means more trade which means more profit in getting to where you need to go without the Raiders getting in the way. This will create an incentive to start hunting down Raiders and before you know it, they'll become extinct.


The American People will rebuild America. That is, the thousands of Wastelanders interested in surviving to live another day. They will group together in settlements and they will cooperate because it's in their best interest to do so. This will eventually lead to city states who will eventually come together in larger groupings, formerly also known as states. In fact, this is pretty much how it worked out for the old America as well.


Difference is time scale. Apparently you want 2070 America rebuilt in a day. I'll be happy to have a high tech 1900 America (without the blatant racism, of course) rebuilt in a century, and I'd be overjoyed if the 2070 America that irradiated the entire planet is gone for good.


And you call yourself American? You're no better than the Slavers and every time you call yourself a patriot, one of the founding fathers is rolling in his grave.


No, my plan involves the BoS doing what they love, killing super mutants and discovering new tech, while the "civilians" work on putting the tech to good use.


The Slavers will soon cease to be a problem. Paradise Falls isn't that big and I'm sure I can talk the BoS and other potentially interested parties into a quick smash and dash, at which point a well motivated citizen's militia will be able to handle the rest. The Raiders will die out because profit dictates it. The super mutants are kept at bay and will slowly die out without more FEV, and with no Enclave around there's not going to be more FEV available. The ghouls will be reserved at first but they certainly aren't going to go to war for no reason (they'd gain nothing and potentially lose) and so eventually there'll be trade and tolerable relations. The feral ghouls and all the FEV critters in the Wasteland are a problem but one that can be managed through simple convoys.

The American people will get by just fine without being slaves of the Enclave, thank you very much.


The Enclave that considers normal humans with radiation damage mutants as well? The Enclave that has a track record of considering Wastelanders sub-human? Yeah, it would be MUCH easier if I could just be a slave for my Enclave overlords, wouldn't it? In your dreams, Enclaver.

And by the way, the challenge remains. Name one good thing the Enclave has done for humanity. I'm waiting.

That Free Market stuff is just amazing. That is how the wastes... should be rebuilt.

The problem is, you have so many small factions in the wastes. Until someone can unite them under a common flag, were screwd. I put my faith on the NCR, and the Enclave, even thought the Enclave has had their buts wipped twice.

Well, your right about the small city states turning to states stuff, but who is going to unite them? Some states will have tyrants, and some Freedom lovers, uniting them will not be easy. And you have the ghouls.

The thing is, people need the Enclave. The Enclave has one of they few remaining Constitutions. The Enclave knows ALL about pre-war history. The Enclave knows how America was before the war. People need their tech as well.

(In real life, I would probably Hate the Enclave, just saying)

It won't be easy but it will happen eventually. It took a long while before it happened in the first America. It's not going to happen all that fast in the new America either.


But why do you have faith in the Enclave when they've accomplished nothing, never tried to help the American people (beyond those already living within the Enclave), and have repeatedly tried to kill all outside the Enclave? The original constitution of the old America still exists and that's all it takes.


Nobody has to unite the city states and later on the states. They'll come together on their own accord eventually, once they realise that the benefits of a union outweighs the drawbacks. And even in the scenario that two independent factions emerge in the old US who can't come to terms of a union, isn't that still a better American legacy than trying to recreate was once was through slavery, extermination, and all kinds of atrocities?


Sure, but why does that have to be a problem? They can tolerate conditions intolerable to normal humans. Why not make the best of it, even if they're ugly as hell? They still seem intelligent, rational, and equipped with emotions. They're still capable of empathy.


A constitution that allows for a genocide against intelligent, self-aware, peaceful people is not a constitution worth keeping.


Having Enclave tech would be a huge boost, but how willing has the Enclave been to share it? How willing has the Enclave been to do anything to help anyone that aren't them? That being the case, we'll have to make do without. As or pre-war history knowledge and familiarity with America pre-war, I believe all is known that needs to be known. Trying to recreate America anno 2070 is not all that desireable anyway, considering how the situation was. I'd rather aim for a point in time well before the resource wars and considering how the Enclave are the descendants of the people who started the resource wars, I'd rather not rely on them for the structure of the new America. Just saying...


I know. This *is* a roleplay topic. :foodndrink:

They do provide a steady supply of high valuable armor and weapons (and fingers).

No, the Enclave did not start the wars, the rabid Chinese did. The Americans were looking after themselves by taking the worlds remaining oil. The chinese did like that and invaded Alaska.

I think that the Enclave has the original constitution, just interepreted in a different way. They believe that mutants are not human and do not qualify under the constitution. I am moderate and believe that it depends on severity. Probably EVERYONE in the Enclave has had some sort of exposure and mutation. Ghouls are pre-war mostly and could be used to rebuild.

I went with BoS because while I don't really have anything against the Enclave, killing off the lot of 'em has made me filthy rich Besides, if the BoS likes it, then why not let them adore me :clap:

QUOTE: A constitution that allows for a genocide against intelligent, self-aware, peaceful people is not a constitution worth keeping.

That pretty much says it all. In America, the ends must not justify the means. We have violated this precept too many times in the past, with our so-called "manifest destiny" of the 1800's.

America is the greatest country EVER to walk the face of the earth. You must sometimes make difficult choices for the greater good.

this is my first ever post on here new to the fallout forum i loved fallout 3 got all the addons and its the bestgameon 360 bu why is ther so much love for the enclave haha

Welcome! The Enclave is America. Since we LOVE America, we love the Enclave.

God Bless the Eclave, God Bless America!

Three reasons:

1) They are easy to kill and provide good loot.
2) They are easy to kill and provide good loot.
3) They are easy to kill and provide good loot.

HOW DARE you kill American soldiers!!! YOU ARE A TRAITOR!

You know, there was a point in time where people insisted that the Constitution only applied to Caucasian Males. That was chucked out the window once people stopped and thought about it.

I know, but its too tempting cause they are so weak, stupid, easy to kill and - as stated - provide so good loot.
I think, actually, that it's more patriotic killing them than joining them because they are so dumb. What if the chinese attack us again? Our great nation will never live again if we have to rely on such incompetent idiots.