When did Pelinal come from? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Thu May 03, 2012 5:47 pm

Genre conventions are for kiddies and grandpas. Vehk-aroos like us ride the weird trails, dream under the duvet-o'-starshine, and eat our nonsense straight outta the can.

I like your old pic more. That jedi guy or whatever it was.

Just wait until the ninjas wipe out th stormtroopers who come back and rise out of the sea of ghosts as zombies and attack the empire's robotic legions with stolen covenant plasma weaponry. Then we'll see how you like to mix your pizza with your ice cream.

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:58 pm

*sigh* TES is going to be sci-fi whether I like it or not. There's already robots and space travel, but it never felt all that sci-fi. But this landfall thing now. When did landfall have to do with robots? What land actually falls? Anyone ever hear of a story called The Ceiling by Kevin Brockmeier? I always figured something like that. I also had a dream once that a giant, violet, luminescent spear/obelisk the length of a galaxy was heading towards Earth, ripping the solar system from its location in the Milky Way. In the back of my mind it was TES related. I also had a dream years back that I approached Snow Throat, but it was half a mountain, like if you chopped a mountain lengthwise and removed one half, so that in the middle it was pretty much vertical. Snow Throat was covered in cubby holes that had been dug out of the flat side, and people lived there. At the base of Snow Throat was a village. I climbed up inside one of the cubby holes and slept, and inside the hole time flowed slower, and thousands of years went by, and over time the people of Tamriel discovered modern technology, built oil rigs, and large alien-looking thin spires that reached beyond the clouds. Then I watched as the sky became red, then gray, then black, and all civilization died, regressing back to current day Tamriel, the towers having eroded and the oil rigs melting down into the ground to become natural iron deposits. All the while the feeling of grimness and ending grew within me as I sat in the burrow.

Speaking of Pelinal though, I had a dream about three years ago that I was in a very modern, believable future. Even though I have no siblings someone who was my sister was worried about a storm approaching. The storm caused massive floods, and I knew the world was about to end. There was a tall, futuristic tower in a public place that I thought was a business building. My sister and I drive up to it. The dream skips to me walking up into the tower to the very top, and I know that if I can enter the tower, I'll be spared the apocalypse. At the pinnacle of the tower is a cylindrical space capsule, and when I approach it, it opens. Inside is an old man who I know is Pelinal. He is so old, that his lower body has withered away, so that he has no legs or hips. His body is so thin that his skin has wrapped itself around individual ribs, and I suddenly have the feeling that I'm looking at a machine that has been ripped in half. He is wearing ragged robes, and his beard is white and long, giving him the look of a stereotypical wizard. He beckons me inside as if he was expecting me, and behind me, a group of children follow and sit along the sides of the wall that Pelinal is sitting at, and I get the feeling that these children are the men of the new world, inheritors. The door to the capsule closes, and in what seems like a few seconds it opens again, but the landscape has changed drastically. For one, the tower is gone, and the capsule is on ground level. Everything has come to resemble a fiery wasteland, and the ground is split open with volcanic fissures while meteors plummet from the skies. Curiously the feeling I get is of hopefulness; even excitement and pure optimism, that this is the new world. Pelinal is still wizardly looking, but his legs have regrown, and he is no longer emaciated. His eyes twinkle with purpose. Winged creatures fly through the sky, and one of them lands. It's demonic and resembles a cross between a typical dragon and a humanoid gargoyle. Pelinal casually hops on top of it, and it opens its crocodile-like mouth to roar. Pelinal grabs its tongue and performs a silent spell. Fire leaps from the creatures throat as skin and tissue from within the creature coils outward and straight upward until it resembles a staff with two serpents coiled around it from bottom to top. The creature collapses dead as Pelinal takes the staff, and as he holds it I know that this staff is his badge, his symbol. He looks outward to where two mountains part forming a pass, and as Pelinal steps from the dead beast, the children gather around him, and I know the new world has begun.

Now learn to do it while you're awake.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:36 pm

Now learn to do it while you're awake.

You don't have to learn that kind of stuff. You just have to pay for it. Ha.

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:58 pm

I like your old pic more. That jedi guy or whatever it was.

Just wait until the ninjas wipe out th stormtroopers who come back and rise out of the sea of ghosts as zombies and attack the empire's robotic legions with stolen covenant plasma weaponry. Then we'll see how you like to mix your pizza with your ice cream.

Rocky Road on Hawaiian!

Also, my old pic was Esbern as a much younger ~~Knight undergoing an existential crisis~~ Blade.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:04 am

Just wait until the ninjas wipe out th stormtroopers who come back and rise out of the sea of ghosts as zombies and attack the empire's robotic legions with stolen covenant plasma weaponry. Then we'll see how you like to mix your pizza with your ice cream.

Whoa, now you're mixing distinct IPs, which is a definite no-no. Unless said IPs are all owned by Bethesda - actually, even then, that's a no. In fact, you can't even mix Morrowind with Oblivion or either with Skyrim. Toopid copyrite laws.

Anyway... What's wrong with the blend of Sci-fi and fantasy? It's all just speculative nonsense anyway.

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:31 pm

Whoa, now you're mixing distinct IPs, which is a definite no-no. Unless said IPs are all owned by Bethesda

Varlaphased-Enantiomirror Logic Combat, Varlaphased-Enantiomirror Logic Combat never changes.

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:14 pm

Ron Perlman is Dumac Dwarf-Orc incarnate.

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:53 pm

Well that's what it seems like he's doing. That or cocain. Or he just has a really weird mind.

This might be hard to grasp, but some of us think sideways. Michael's stuff is weird when it comes to videogames, but, in the greater scope of art, literature, and thinking, there are things just as strange or stranger. Blaming creativity (or your inability to figure out a text!) on drugs is just insulting to the artist, no matter who he is.

Anyway, we get it, you don't like it. No need to point it out in every thread. There's plenty of stuff out here to talk about that doesn't involve 'sci-fi'.

» Thu May 03, 2012 6:38 pm

IMO, the hardest (and weirdest) thing about MK's work is the words, not the actual subject. Of course I could be misunderstanding stuff and thus believe it's simplier than it really is.

The actual subjects are rather common. I AM ALL WE isn't new. Nor is cyclic time. Or dreamworlds. They're actually rather basic ideas, though turned up on their head. If anything, some people are overthinking it.

» Thu May 03, 2012 8:35 am

Nuance frightens me
I play Dragon Age instead
This is a haiku

» Thu May 03, 2012 5:39 pm

Nuance frightens me
I play Dragon Age instead
This is a haiku

You don't say much but you sure say a lot.

» Thu May 03, 2012 5:35 pm

IMO, the hardest (and weirdest) thing about MK's work is the words, not the actual subject. Of course I could be misunderstanding stuff and thus believe it's simplier than it really is.

The actual subjects are rather common. I AM ALL WE isn't new. Nor is cyclic time. Or dreamworlds. They're actually rather basic ideas, though turned up on their head. If anything, some people are overthinking it.

This is my perspective as well. The hardest part about the writings is the vocabulary used. It quite literally makes me feel like I'm looking at a different language or something like Old English. It's like you have to put ALL of MK's works in one place and anolyze the words in their contexts to figure out what the meaning of each word is (or if there is more than one

)

I'd love it if I could just read the texts without feeling like I need a translator.

But obviously it's meant to be a big puzzle/game. So you get out of it what you put in I guess. Some of us just don't want to work that hard when it comes to translating

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:02 pm

This is my perspective as well. The hardest part about the writings is the vocabulary used. It quite literally makes me feel like I'm looking at a different language or something like Old English. It's like you have to put ALL of MK's works in one place and anolyze the words in their contexts to figure out what the meaning of each word is (or if there is more than one

)

I'd love it if I could just read the texts without feeling like I need a translator.

But obviously it's meant to be a big puzzle/game. So you get out of it what you put in I guess. Some of us just don't want to work that hard when it comes to translating :tongue:

Not necessariy a new language, but a new lexicon.

Nuance frightens me
I play Dragon Age instead
This is a haiku

Here, just take all my internets. You deserve them more than I.

» Thu May 03, 2012 1:23 pm

Genre dogmatism is for kiddies and grandpas. Vehk-aroos like us ride the weird trails, dream under the duvet-o'-starshine, and eat our nonsense straight outta the can.

A denomination of non-denomination.

Excuse me?

Valve merchandise in a Bethesda game is Landfall?

» Thu May 03, 2012 11:05 am

This is my perspective as well. The hardest part about the writings is the vocabulary used. It quite literally makes me feel like I'm looking at a different language or something like Old English. It's like you have to put ALL of MK's works in one place and anolyze the words in their contexts to figure out what the meaning of each word is (or if there is more than one

)

I'd love it if I could just read the texts without feeling like I need a translator.

But obviously it's meant to be a big puzzle/game. So you get out of it what you put in I guess. Some of us just don't want to work that hard when it comes to translating :tongue:

I bet he writes the whole thing and then goes back and replaces words with weird words and phrases so it doesnt make any sense at first glance and then you actually have to translate it.

» Thu May 03, 2012 8:32 am

Or maybe he's a talented and intelligent writer with a large vocabulary and a penchant for extended metaphors. Go figure.

» Thu May 03, 2012 2:58 pm

Or maybe he's a talented and intelligent writer with a large vocabulary and a penchant for extended metaphors. Go figure.

No. There are clearly made up words in much of TES lore.

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:38 pm

He's an talented writer, but if I were to write I would actually go out of my way to make it understandable. He seems to do the opposite.

» Thu May 03, 2012 2:42 pm

As long ass we get moder/futuristic stuff I want this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1C0r2EHQfY

No pretty link4u.

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:18 am

He's an talented writer, but if I were to write I would actually go out of my way to make it understandable. He seems to do the opposite.

It actually is fun to try to figure out what he is talking about. Some people just enjoy solving puzzles more than others. That "eureka" moment is a pretty good feeling to get, I have to admit.

I don't mean to sound like I'm ragging on anyone, his writing is just an intimidating/daunting task to behold

» Thu May 03, 2012 5:36 am

He's an talented writer, but if I were to write I would actually go out of my way to make it understandable. He seems to do the opposite.

C'est art.

It doesn't just make you think, it pretty much forces thinking down your throat and through your rectum. There is just enough sense to it that you can start to understand it one way and then see someone else's view on it and also understand it another way.

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:08 pm

I like to wait until other people decipher it because I would rather spend my time doing something else that is just as unproductive. Like playing Skyrim.

» Thu May 03, 2012 6:00 am

He's an talented writer, but if I were to write I would actually go out of my way to make it understandable. He seems to do the opposite.

It is understandable, just not to you.

I had this argument once with a friend of mine (she's no longer my friend) in which she accused me of deliberately using big words to make her feel stupid. She gave examples. It's been more than 20 years, and I can't remember any examples, but they were all perfectly common words to me, words it would never occur to me that people would consider unusual, much less have difficulty with.

Now, Michael's not doing quite the same thing. He knows his language is unusual, and he's doing it on purpose. But he's not doing it to [censored] with you, or not just to [censored] with you. He's also doing it because there are people who love language for it's own sake, and he's one of them. And so am I. And so are, probably, the majority of people who read the lore forums. We don't say, "That's too much to read." In fact the very idea of there being such a thing as "too much to read" is a little outlandish to us. We mostly didn't even sit in the same classrooms with people who thought there was such a thing as too much to read. They were in the other class, across the hall. None of us feel any need to cater to them. 90% of the entire world caters to them already. We will be over here, having fun, enjoying what we do well.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:24 pm

Amen.

» Thu May 03, 2012 2:50 pm

He's an talented writer, but if I were to write I would actually go out of my way to make it understandable. He seems to do the opposite.

Okay, here's how to most easily think about it. The Silmarillion is written in very formal, archaic and poetic prose like you would expect to find in a religious work. The Lord of the Rings, while never inaccurate in terms of its language, is a lot less formal. Now imagine you were a person from Middle-Earth reading these elven history texts.

The Elder Scrolls works like that. The Sermons of Vivec, for example, are classic MK works that, because some people seem to find this important, are actually contained in the game disc rather than written and given at random by the same man from the same setting. The overall content of each individual sermon, and then afterwards the whole arc, is a lot more simple than people realize. People get intimidated by language they are unfamiliar with and walk away when really, it's as simple as Shakespeare: six, vilence and humanity described in the most beautiful words available for the events in the story. Even when the humanity comes from elves.

As for Pelinal, considering that god-machines are a pretty common part of TES lore and games (Numidium, Akhulakhan, Clockwork City) I don't see why it's so hard to figure that he is one. Especially considering he lacks a heart, occasionally glitches out and deletes locations, and can speak to his compatriots even when he's just a head. I think both the likeliest and coolest scenario is that he is from even farther ahead in the timeline than Skyrim and was built to fight the Thalmor. Explains why he hates elves so much, he was programmed to do so.

And another point, Skyrim Dragonborn is probably Talos 2.1 since he is a powerful Dragonborn proclaimed as Ysmir by the greybeards and starts off as an advisor. Maybe he'll be the one to achieve CHIM in the Talos sequence (because I still think it'll be a future iteration of Talos who gets it rather than the Talos named Talos.

And finally (for this post), Lady N mentioned that the cool and deep lore that actually requires thought was "unusual for games," and I think that's a problem that TES is a big help in rectifying. I try to push games as a narrative medium and TES is my go-to proof that fantasy is a genre that was matched with games in heaven because the narrative moves at the player's pace. As has been said here, if you want to explore the lore, you can. But if you don't, there's no cutscenes to skip because, oh hey, the lore is in the books. So the learning is part of the adventure.