I guess I was unclear; I meant in the context of life after a victor is declared. If House wins, he's not going to be murdering (killing, assassinating, whatever you want to call it) people who complain about his rule. Any political dissident in Caesar's empire is going into a tire fire or up on a cross.

The respective methods of conquest are a whole different thing.

I think your just blinded by the fact that CL is a bunch of wanna be Romans that are hypocrites and contradict there selves. Really its gonna be a bloody battle if Legion fights the NCR but in the end the NCR is gonna win no matter how you look at it.

They are not Roman wannabes, they are not hypocrites and they do not contradict themselves. You are just spewing a bunch of [censored] [censored] and not giving any facts to back your [censored] [censored] statements up. The Legion beat the NCR in the first battle for Hoover Dam, but Graham was blinded by his victory and lead the Legion into a [censored] trap so gets your [censored] facts straight. Caesars Legion are superior fighters to NCR no matter how you look at it. Forum Peacekepper my [censored] ass.

Yah not hardly bud. They want to have roman values but they fail at it so hard they break there legs on the fall. Thats when Ceaser comes in with his contradictions and hypocraticness. Thinks hes better than any body else but is far from it since hes the one who has a tumor haha ha jokes on him. The Legion was stupid to push forward and so therefore NCR won the battle NOT CL or they would be controlling the dam. NCR killed them once they sure can do it again. Once Ceaser dies they will be lost with the legates brutal rulings. The snipers can pick the Legion off like bloatflys.

The won the battle over Hoover Dam, it was theres but then they pursued the NCR, if they would of stayed at Hoover Dam it would be theres in New Vegas but like I said before they chased the NCR to Boulder City and fell right into the NCRs trap. And Caesar is not recreating the Roman Legion, he has based the Legion off of them but they are completely different. And Caesar contradicts himself because he has a brain tumor? Thats one of the stupidest things I have read on these forums. He never said he was better than anyone else, he is saying his goals are better then everyone else and thats true.

Hey "bud". I hardly think your attitude will be well received by the forum peacekeepers. You're basing your whole argument on assumptions, not giving any reasons, whilst making fun of people with brain tumours?

As I say, may have to report you to the peacekeepers. If you could just accept that everybody has different opinions, or even better attempt to explain each side using well thought out points instead of saying "lolol tumour stupid legion NCR ftw badass armour", maybe everybody could live in peace and harmony?

God I hate it when my posts get ignored because of off topic replies surrounding it :sadvaultboy:

Legion is not the best for the West Coast/the Wasteland in general. The idea of slaves and sixism has been instituted in CL minds. If Caesar dies (which he would eventually) and someone takes over, they will retain these ideologies. Only Caesar would have the potential of changing them, but in order for him to order that change CL would need to control a significant portion of the West Coast. CL would expand with slavery, death, and outright brutality following it. Their settlements would rely on slavery and that is a fact. If the actual soldiers (Recruits, Legionaries, etc) actually had to do the work then they would suffer set backs. People who are not born into the Legion will either be forced into it, or have to flee. CL rules by fear and that is not the way the Wasteland needs to be run. No offense to supporters of CL, but a Wasteland ruled by them, is not a better Wasteland. They are brainwashed by Caesar who acquires members by suppressing their tribes (like a gang forcing you in by hurting your family) and feeds them propaganda. Do you really think CL would be able to rule the Wasteland if they weren't fighting someone/preparing to fight someone? From what I have played in game, all the members of CL seem hell bent on fighting everything, not actually caring for anyone but themselves. The Wasteland would be worse off then it currently is if it was under CL rule.

One thing I have to credit CL with though: Centurion armor is awesome! :thumbsup:

Oh no im so in trouble...please bud would you act a little more ripe? Its not my fault all of Legion goes around calling people profligates when there not better than anyone else. They go off of roman values but dont follow them to heart. Even if they would go off of them By heart they would still fail.

I use the tumor to reference Ceaser and his incompetence. He thinks hes the best and has a mighty army but his PRECIOUS army fall apart once hes dead. It just might even fall apart when hes not dead. Either way he as a time limit and its short. Hes gonna be short lived. They don't like using technology when theirs technology all around them.

His army falls apart once he's dead? For one the canon of New Vegas has not been stated so he is very much still alive and how the [censored] do you know if the Legion is going to fall apart once he is dead? Can see into the [censored] future? I think not so unless you have facts don't say anything. And the Legion uses technology, they just don't rely on it, like I said before get your facts straight before you start running your mouth.

"Roman wannabes"?
As far as I recall Caesar used aspects of the old roman ways as it would be alien to the wasteland and would allow for a true fresh start with his new society.
I don't remember hearing him go "Yeah I'm trying to replicate the romans :bonk:". :confused:

I don't think you have to become upset. It's just a game we're discussing, after all.
But you are right. The Legion are not hypocrites, and they do not contradict themselves. Caesar himself however, does.

He forbids the use of technology, yet uses high-tech weaponry for himself and his Praetorian Guard. He forbids the use of modern medicine, yet orders the Courier to perform modern medical surgery on him when he's near death. He thinks of the tribes he conquered as 'backward' and thought the Followers of the Apocalypse were idiots for learning the backward tribal dialects. Yet he presents himself as a tribal warlord, and the son of Mars, the god of war. Who's backward now?

He can pretend to have noble goals, but as long as the man uses backward and primitive ways of making his people follow and fight, the Legion won't see progress, ever. The Legion has been his life's work, and yet he cripples his own Legion by teaching them to be idiots. His second-in-command only sees the Legion as an instrument of war, and offers NCR corpses to the god of war. That is what Caesar has achieved, and that is the level his society will have after his inevitable death.

So your telling me...since they use ballistic fists, Pushy's, and The auto Doc the dont rely on technology? I'm pretty sure there gonna rely on there ballistic fists to work in combat...no? Im pretty sure ceasers gonna rely on his Pushy to protect him when hes being attacked at...No? I'm pretty sure Ceaser is gonna rely on that Auto Doc to take out that nasty little tumor of his..No? Im pretty sure while the Protectians are protecting Ceaser there all gonna rely on there Ballistic fists to work..No? They kinda do rely on there technology that they use. Legate is not a Good ruler material. Hes just a brutal ruler that will kill anything and everyone to get what the wants. With his lack of only military skills CL with surely fall apart if not soon but later.

@thank you vexan that was a great answer.

He hasn't said that he forbids technology, he just doesn't want the Legion to rely on it, he wants them to rely on themselves so they have no excuses.

You're simply being naive if you think House won't have problem individuals assassinated or otherwise silenced. The Legion is based on a unity of purpose where the individual's opinion doesn't matter, so obviously they will not take kindly to sedition, either. The NCR is not clean in this, either, sending Rangers to assassinate low reputation Couriers in isolated areas, often without any proof of wrongdoing, being an in-game example.

The question then becomes is which faction's shady dealings can be ignored for the sake of rebuilding civilization. I prefer House's intellect and the Legion's straightforward brutality to the NCR's misguided, parasitic expansionism.

1. He does not, he's against combat robots but otherwise he isn't against technology, he just wants his Legion to not be reliant on technology too much.

2. He wants his Legion to stay pure and to not be reliant on medical equipment as it will weaken the Legion. Caesar on the other hand is not part of the fighting force and has no reason to not rely on it. Legion needs Caesar and he knows this. It isn't his time to go yet. Is he contradicting himself? Nope. The rules of medicinal usage is for the Legion and his citizens, not for Caesar. He's the exception to that rule. Unfair? Yes. But so is it that House gets to sit comfy in his Lucky 38 guarded by robots or that Kimball gets to use a vertibird and Desert Rangers when he arrives to the wasteland. Leaders get that unfair advantage.
Still, he isn't contradicting himself as the rule of medicine is set for his Legion, not for him.

3. He's actually moving forward, not backward. :confused:

No im pretty sure hes just going backwards. You see no civilized manners in the Legion nor hardly any technology. Hes going back in time not foward.

Legion is very civilized and well mannered if you're in good rep with them, and they use lots of technology.
Just cause Legion isn't 'picking off where the old world left off' doesn't mean that it isn't moving forward.

Exactly :celebration: there turds if you arnt.

1. That's a vague line. Hard to keep that up. You can't use combat robots that could spare hundreds of Legionaries' lives, yet you can use a high-tech energy-powered 'gadget' to fight with if it's on your hand.

2. It's not so much that he has privileges, like Kimball does. It's that he forbids certain items and treatments, yet makes exceptions for himself. Mr. House doesn't forbid longevity-securing technology and security robots, it's just so expensive the average person can't afford it. Kimball doesn't forbid Vertibirds or Ranger bodyguards. Again, the average person can't afford them and has no real use for them. Caesar is an obvious different case. He forbids certain things, only to break his own rule later. No man in his Legion is allowed to even carry a stimpak. Add to that the whole idea of 'the weak will die so the strong can rise' philosophy the Legion has, and Caesar should know it's his time and duty to die. Yet he won't accept it, and wants to be treated with modern medicine.

3. Why does he accept modern medicine when his own life is on the line? Why does he accept modern weaponry when his own safety is on the line? Because he knows it's better than the tribal ways. He knows it's superior to what the Legion usually uses, yet he keeps his own people away from it. He is weakening his own Legion by letting them become ignorant of modern medicine and technology over time.

He doesn't believe in Mars. He knows he's not the son of the god of war. He's intelligent, and knows how to trick people into serving him. He thinks it's okay for his followers to be ignorant of medicine, technology, theology, philosophy and modern society as long as someone who is knowledgeable is in charge, and gets to decide what the servants do. He apparently doesn't realize the twisted vision of the world he's teaching his servants, is actually also present within the Legion leadership. Even his second-in-command is ignorant. Lanius actually believes Caesar is the son of Mars, and Lanius brings dead NCR soldiers as an offering. Caesar will die, and this is the Legion he is leaving behind. What used to be a society of people kept ignorant by their leader, will become a ignorant society with an ignorant and savage leader. It is beyond me how Caesar does not see this coming, or doesn't care about his Legion becoming a tool of war for a savage as backward as the rest of them. How is this moving forward?

Was on the tip of my tongue .

It's called self-sufficiency. High tech devices need to be repaired and maintained, and can break unexpectedly even with those things, hence why most Legionaries are skilled at all forms of combat. Having a robot kill people for you is the antithesis of this philosophy.



Caesar has convinced his people he is a living god. That his centurions know he gets debilitating headaches is bad enough, but things would not go well if he suddenly died of an illness the average Legion citizen has never heard of. Like Marcus, he is convinced the Legion will fall without him. Or, at the very least, the Legion won't be able to enter into its Golden Age when it takes Vegas with Lanius in charge. Hence, Caesar needs to buy himself a few years so he can set things in motion. Right now he sees himself more as a barbarian king than a true Caesar. Once the Legion has its "Rome" in Vegas, then his great work will be complete.



Caesar does not forbid the use of guns or other advanced weaponry, but the Legion ideal is to be a deadly warrior whether you have a weapon or not. He and the higher ranking officers use better weapons, but they are all skilled at defending themselves without them. Make no mistake that the Praetorians can kill men with their bare hands in lieu of their Ballistic Fists quite easily.


The original Rome did just fine for thousands of years believing in deities and lacking modern medicine. If anything, it could be argued that finding and using Pre-War gadgets instead of developing them yourself over time is a terrible idea. The Pre-War world destroyed itself even with a natural progression of technological advancement, and Caesar thinks that if people simply use the scraps of the Pre-War world they won't fare any better. In fact, they'll fare worse.

And this is where a problem lies. The people who are not in good rep with Legion are treated like demoralized pieces of trash. Imagine if they controlled the whole Wasteland. The average Legionnaire believes he is better than anyone not in the Legion and that would reflect in his attitude towards normal civilians in the waste. These people would be forced to join the Legion even if they didn't support their ideals or be forced into slavery. If the CL controlled the waste then you would NEED to be a part of their practices. They would not let people be independent. If someone disagreed with them they would be killed. If someone did not want to join they would become a slave. CL is not the way for the Wasteland because they rule with fear and inhumane ideals.

Does the name Dale Barton mean nothing to you? He's a trader who lives in Legion territory that does not have to subscribe to Legion ideals or serve in the army.

As Schneidend said, what about Dale Burton?
Or what about the endings sliders for Vegas and Primm?
Or what about that there are several comments about Legion roads being safer for trading and travel?
Or how about the currency that they have?

If Legion strictly had "Legionnaire or Slave" then what would be the point in making their own currency?
Why even allow traders in their area?
Why not just raid and enslave them?

Legion does have citizens that are neither legionnaire nor slave.
Just cause all we see in Vegas are their war camps does not mean that that's all there is to them.
And if you were a citizen of a Legion town then if you followed their laws and stayed out of trouble I doubt their going to keep spitting "degenerate" in your face.

I am unaware of the endings for Vegas and Primm, I haven't done a CL walk through yet. However, to the comment about enslaving traders, there is a very simple answer. If CL raided every trader then NO traders would go to them. They would know they would get raided from stories and CL would eventually run out of supplies/need to go look for them by themselves.

Even if you were a citizen there would still be the Legionnaires who think they are better than all the other citizens. In high school you have the jocks who think they are better than everyone else, but imagine if your whole school was filled with them and there were only a handful of "regular" kids. Being picked on all the time would not be gratifying. If you wanted to get any respect from the Legion it would come down to simply joining them.

As for the roads being safer, I don't disagree. They are safer, but they are only safer because CL killed/scared everybody on them. They either killed all the raiders or forced them to integrate with CL. I've already said this, but just because it is safer, doesn't mean it is technically better. CL is still instilling fear in everyone and thats their way of keeping order. To me, slaves are NOT what I consider best for the Wasteland. People need to work together, not force others into doing work for them.

Not really sure where you are going with the currency thing. CL doesn't make everything out of thin air so they would need some form of money to purchase goods from traders. Clearly they don't pay for labor though.