This the last time i checked this isnt grammar class.

Yes and the legion is just down right savage trash.

The Legion hasn't reached its good side yet. Thats kind of been my entire point.

Do you wanna fight with robots? Lots and Lots of them? (if you gave Platinum chip to Mr. House Already, Super Strong Robots) If you wanna fight lots of robots go with skirt wearers who doesn't have good side. If you don't like to fight robots or NCR go with Mr. House or work toward Independence.

If evil is cool, revive ENCLAVE~! They ARE threatening, unlike skirt wearers who aren't even threatening as Talon Folks who also fights against hordes of Mutants.

This whole thread is breaking down anyway, lets do this shizznit. :flamethrower:

Why wouldn't they be`?

Hey, don't derail, forum peacekeeper.

I view the NCR as the lesser of two evils. They may have corruption in their ranks, but Tandi's ideals still stand. Freedom of religion, a safe haven for all, etc.

President Tandi, I miss you... :cryvaultboy:

A lot of people here are comparing the Legion to the NCR. This is not what I want. I know I won't be joining the NCR. Figures like Moore, Oliver, and McLafferty leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I want to hear comparisons of House and the Legion, and not just in big lists; give me some concrete details and arguements as to why you feel the Legion is superior to Mr. House and Vice-Versa.

(Also, if you give me in-game arguements why my character, as a native of the Wasteland, would prefer one or the other, that'd be even better.)

Okay.
Legion is better than House because Legion wants to bring civilization and unite the world under one banner while House wishes to concentrate on one city.
Legion wants to help the people of the wasteland in the long run on a world wide scale.
House wishes to help people in the long run as well but in a smaller scale.

If House wins the battle then Legion is pushed back to Arizona and their conquest is put on hold and NCR will still be present just eating out of House's hand.
The west coast is better off with Legion than it is with NCR in charge.
By helping House, NCR will still be in charge of the west coast.

So again, real simple:
House wishes the best for Vegas and the Mojave while Legion wishes the best for multiple states including the entire west coast.
Both want this progress to be made in their own image over a long period of time.

So it's all about if you want one city and it's surrounding area to prosper or if you want several states to prosper.
Sure House is more humane than Legion and less "evil" but with House in charge the rest of the wasteland is still without order and humanity does not really progress at all, it just stagnates.

Didn't derail anything i think he was the one by saying my grammar isn't good.

That's not true. When Caesar dies of his issue, and with Lanius alive, the Legion is little more than a machine of senseless killing. Kill Lanius. You can say 'Lucius would take over' but the fact remains, if you kill Lanius the Legion will be put into an internal power struggle.



House does not 'stagnate' anything, he does what most of the settlements seem to want, their independence. Goodsprings is given Victor as a token of House's appreciation, NoVac is left to be, and Primm has it's sherriffs or House defending it (albeit making them pay a tribute for accepting NCR). And Vegas does prosper. With House in charge, NCR still trades, and spreads civility and peace alongside House (IE traders with their mercs and Securitrons roaming the Mojave. The Legion REVERSES humans productivity to the negatives if you ask me.

1. Depending on how it's handled it might turn into an internal power struggle.
But if Legion wins then Caesar will set up his synthesis(?) which will be compromised of both Legion and NCR qualities. So during this time Lanius might have been killed already, or maybe demoted, or maybe a new system has been set up, or maybe Caesar has found his true successor?
Lots and lots of variables.

2. Never said that House stagnate anything, he won't.
I'm saying that humanity "overall" will stagnate with a few isolated exceptions, like Vegas.
Core Region and the rest of the west coast will continue living under NCR's awful rule and sooner or later fall apart creating a Fallout 1/Fallout 2 anarchy/lawlessness again.
And Legion would be pushed back, putting a hold to their conquest for a long time and during that time something might happen and they might fall apart too.
With House in charge the rest of the world around him falls apart or stagnate as his Mojave stands there as a jewel in the wasteland.
At least until the next super power is born or arrives to the areas, but what is the probability of them being any more successful than NCR or Legion was?

They're both brutally efficient men who get things done. House is a technological genius and can bring about a new Golden Age, but Caesar has developed a rather unique society that is largely free of corruption and whose territory is extremely secure. Both have their value as a "greater good" solution, but in different ways. It depends on which you think is a bigger problem for the wastes, the lack of Pre-War tech that allows people to thrive instead of just survive that House can provide, or the chaotic nature of the wastes and its raiders and monsters that Caesar is taming.

1. True, but I was pointing things out on how they'd play out in the NCR/House way.


2. I think your problem with NCR is a bit misinformed, the war in the Mojave isn't NCR's war, it's Kimballs war. Once Kimball is killed or if Kimball lives to NCR's defeat at Hoover Dam, he is publicly disgraced and thrown out of office, and senators likely to stand up to Kimball's overly nationalist ideals will change their ways to a more Tandi-esque NCR again. Also, on the assumption House wins, NCR and Legion lose the battle, but not the war. When House rises to power, you essentially have three very huge snarling alpha dogs. All fighting for control. House will continue to defend Vegas, as he has no interest in expanding, and the battle between the Bull and the Bear will ever continue until only one remains standing. In alot of ways, I think, unintentionally, their nations symbols represent themselves. The Bear is very strong and will always win at some point in time, and a bull has a very powerful attack with it's horns, but will someday meet a foe it cannot truely beat, the NCR is the Legions foe it cannot beat.

@Schneidend- House actually does tame the region, if you ignore the Fiends, House sends in the Securitrons to wipe them out, successfully might I add.

How the heck is Legion a better choice then House. Once Ceasar dies the group is back to square one. Lucius may be able to hold onto it for a while but they'll eventually have a civil war.

House is clearly the better choice at least he makes an attempt to make the wasteland a better place to live. Not to mention that the Legion has slavery and doesn't want to modernize their technology.

Speaking of technology. I don't rightly understand why the Legion hates technology.

A lot of people, in defending the Legion, say that their dogma forbids technology and chems because people become reliant upon them, rather than themselves. The chems I understand -- all chems in legion hands are in footlockers or locked away by commanders, confiscated. However, technology is wide-spread throughout the legion, such as the ballistic fists of the Praetorians. Some might say these are simple weapons, such as the guns they use, but Caesar himself uses a Displacer Glove and an Auto-Doc, rather advanced pieces of Pre-War tech. And this is all especially confusing, seeing as the Romans were some of the most technologically advanced peoples of their period. In fact, Romans were famed for their engineering prowess, not their weapons, which were outmatched by "barbarian foes," throwing into increasing confusion the idea that the Legion uses technologically superior weapons but not anything else.

So, what's the deal? Why does the Legion hate technology? It's really the main reason I can't see myself siding with them.

I did a legion playthrough just to experience it, but I could never side with them on an honest playthrough. Basically, they have nothing in common with Ancient Rome except the name.

Agriculture, transportation, art, literature, education, government (Rome had elected kings, btw) : all staples of Ancient Rome. None present in Caesar's Legion. Even the diet is messed up. Ancient Romans lived on mostly fish and veggies, not eating other people ...

Every other faction is much closer to Ancient Roman living than CL.

Agriculture? Share croppers and Vault 22 research.
Transportation? Monorail, and Boomers new ride.
Education? Boomers and BoS have VR training. NCR likely has a schooling system in place.

The list goes on. CL are nothing but a tribe of gay cannibals with delusions of grandeur.

People who say that the Legion will fall into civil war without Caesar are full of [censored]. You don't know that, neither do I. There is a chance they will fall into civil war and there is a chance the NCR will fall into a civil war, but nobody knows if it is ever going to happen, unless of course somebody on here can see the future but I doubt that.

@Colonel Martyr The Legion can beat the NCR.

I agree that the NCR could be beaten by the Legion. The only thing that the NCR has the advantage on against the Legion is better Snipers but they become useless when the Legion sneaks across the Colorado river and flanks them.

Both groups are going to have Civil wars.

The Legions will be violent
The NCR's will be peaceful to a degree because they'll vote the Kimball Loyalists out of office.

I think some people here aren't thinking about the ramifications of House retaining control of the Mojave region.
First, he has made it clear that he is not interested in the daily administration of civil matters (see how he seldom interferes in casino business?). If he wins, it is the area locals who will form and maintain the government. House is the Police/Army, but his interest New Vegas is the profits that will fund his scientific work (his 100 year plan). I imagine there will be a lot of robots about, but when House starts firing up the assembly lines, laboratories, factories, etc, there will be a lot of work in the Mojave, not to mention education. A lot of people are going to get rich (many just by avoiding House) and the standard of living is going to shoot up. There will be the usual haves and have nots, of course (this is humanity we're talking about), but there will be an accretion effect that will spread. House, in his own cryptic way, may very well inadvertently save the world.

Legion? Oh, they establish order. By murdering everyone who disagrees with them. Nice. Bodes well for the future.

I was in agreement up until this point. Conquest and murder are two different things. NCR and House are no different in regards to a desire to conquer the Mojave. They are taking what they want via a display of force.

I see House as shooing the stray cats off his porch honestly. It was House who saved Vegas, it was House who single handedly turned three bunches of savages into civilized people. House even got to the Dam first, but he saw that NCR's army was more than enough to take him down, but he negotiated treaty instead. NCR are just as much invaders as the Legion is.

I've decided to try an not get too involved with these debates anymore as every time I just get too bored to even participate with good arguments, the discussions have all been had before and my time is more limited than it was before so I don't feel like writing nor reading an essay of an argument, not to mention I've been taking a break from Vegas so my information about NCR and House is a bit fuzzy.

So anyway, one question, when did Legion say they hate technology?
Chems and medicine is explained.
But where else do they say they "hate" technology?
And what kind of technology do they hate?

Wikia said this: "The only mentioned opposition to military technology is combat robots. Caesar dislikes the thought of having robots win a war fought by men."
Any other tech they frown upon?

I don't remember any sweeping condemnation of technology, either. The Legion espouses a body purity culture, which explains their reluctance to rely on chems, but I don't think they have an outright ban on technology. Look at the weapons the Praetorian Guard carry, and the auto-doc. Isn't it reliance on technology they are avoiding? They are criticized for using melee weapons, but melee weapons don't run out of gunpowder. Hey, credit where it's due.
Come to think of it, that would be good propaganda for Caesar -- as the Legion are reformed or descended from tribals, technology would be alien to them and cultures that use it would be easy to cast as villains.
I see 'the Legion hate technology' here a lot, but where's the in-game evidence?