So i read the book called dragon wars in skyrim and it mentioned how atmora was actually ruled by dragon priests, and after ysgromer came to skyrim they continued to rule and then men rebeled, so ysgromer came and then the nord heros defeated dragons?

From what I've been able to tell, the dragon wars had to have occurred sometime well before Ysgramor, but not too long after men from Atmora first started coming to Tamriel.

What about the snow elves then? did they also live under dragon rule, and perhaps even fight in the dragon war?

Hopefully this thread doesn't break cannon...

I wouldn't worry about breaking the cannon. It's of Dwemer make, and very sturdy.

From what I can tell the Dragons Wars took place during middle Merethic Era.

Ysgrammor setttled Tamriel. The dragon religion sprung up after Ysgrammor, because Nords under Ysgrammor worshipped animal icons (and the icon of the dragon), which you can see in their ruins.

Some time in the middle Merethic.


Apparently, the Atmorans brought over their totem worship from Atmora, which included Alduin/dragon. The last bastion of Alduin worship was wiped out only a century before Alessia's rebellion in Cyrodiil.

The Falmer probably had beliefs similar to those of other non-Dunmer elves.

You can't be sure. If Dwemer metal can't stand up to the flames of a forge, who's to say that it can stand up to those of a forum?

If the Dragon War took place in the Merethic Era, it means Men somehow already had cities and were in control of Skyrim back then, rendering all Ysgramor's exploits when he returned largely irrelevant.

If the Dragon War took place in the First Era after the Return, it means the war was reduced to only Skyrim when one would expect it to shake the entirety of Tamriel, and must not have lasted longer than a couple of years, since it isn't mentioned in any other Tamrielian history book.

Either way, it's hard to fit it in somewhere.

I figured it was in the late merethic, after the Return. If one accepts Saarthal was the only human city built in Skyrim/Tamriel before the Return, then I don't see how the dragon war could possibly have happened before, given that at least the city Bromjunaar existed under the cult's influence, and relics and ruins related to the cult are found all over Skyrim.
It seems to me the Dragon War only requires a century or two for the Nords to tentatively settle the land, and a fraction of that time to play out. Is that really so hard to fit in, especially given how poor surviving accounts from those times are?

I'm not sure if they did it on purpose but:

You notice how Nord history is harder to understand, and less reliable, whereas Dark elves have people that were there first hand in their history. Now that I read this, i question my understanding og nord history.

The biggest problem with the Dragon War that I see, is that it's not recorded in mer history. Sure, the Falmer were largely defeated but Alduin The World Eater subjugating Skyrim is not something I'd see the other elves ignoring.

The other elves were factional at this time, and most early Ayleid/Dunmer records have been lost or destroyed by the Alessian Order, the Tribunal Temple, or the Red Year. Nordic history is mostly oral, and oral history is even worse with dates than the guy from Goon.

Merethic. Which means it was more linear than the Dawn but less than the First. So occasionally things happened before their causes but not usually. The fact that it ended by throwing the End of Time embodied through a hole in Time itself just makes it more ambiguous. So basically, we're not completely sure, but it was after Ysgramor, before Jurgen Windcaller.

Also, Alessia inventing Akatosh this kalpa and turning Alduin into his own son makes things even weirder.

I think it is intentional. The genious who created the history/lore must have put in account of where the info and clues were coming from. The Nords have a less readable history because they have conveyed it through story and song whereas the Dark Elves were more sophisticated as well as long lived and were able to attain more documents and first hand accounts.

It helps that there are elves who were still alive in Oblivion walking about in Skyrim. Less generations for things to be messed up in.

And yes, the sources are a big part of how we understand lore. One thing about Skyrim culture is that the "now" is much more important when you think time is cyclical. "History will happen again, so it's important to know, but right now it's bloody cold outside and a bear is trying to eat my sister. Priorities, dude."

Honestly, I just think there a massive plot holes.
Ever since Morrowind the story lines have been bad and made little sense apon closer inspection. Its my only real worry for TES.

I don't see plot holes. I see plot loops. Alduin is Akatosh's son, yet is the End of Time, which is by necessity an aspect of Time, and since all Dragons are weaker to time shifts, as Paarthurnax says, they can't remember the divergent timeline where Alduin was just "Nord Akatosh" like humans do.

I see it the way I see Morrowind being given fertile zones after Daggerfall: improvement by addition. We didn't really know many details about Skyrim and its history outside the general outline, and while Skyrim's myriad plotlines certainly had flaws here and there I think it did a good job integrating dragons into their pre-existing lore.

And why would elves care what happens to Nords in the merethic when they're too busy trying to copy the gods?

Hrm valid point.
But the way the story is presented is very poor, and the "loops" seem to be covering for an ill devised plot more then anything deeper.

I mean, when playing through Morrowind and discovering its world and story. It all made relative sense from the get go and yet more with some investigation. Oblivion and Skyrim on the other hand. Just seems to make less and less as we go, with cop outs like non linear time being used to excuse nonsensical story telling.

Its all fun and entertaining none the less. But I'm just left with a massive "Wut?" at the end of it all. Which just wasn't the case with Morrowind.
(Not a one eye'd Morrowind fan, for the record)

The reason the Dragon War is so confusing with the timeline is because whoever came up with it wanted it to be in "ancient history" but without making it Dawn Era. So they found a small gap in Nordic history and threw it in there.

Also, the Akatosh the Dragons are from is nothing like the Alessian Akatosh. Much less friendly. The other Nordic gods had to step in to help the Nords. Borhamu only seems to be upset that Alduin was taking power that belonged to Borhamu (so he is arrogant and power obsessed like every other dragon) So I doubt Alduin ent Akatosh has anything to do with Alessia.

This is where it makes bugger all sense.
I mean for a while people were thinking Akatosh = Alduin. Now Alduin is supposedly the Son of Akatosh. Yet Alduin is part of a much older pantheon and Akatosh didn't exist before The Allessian wars (It was Alduin and Arui-el).

It seems as if Bethesda just went "HERP, we'll just make it easy for people who have no idea" and completely obliterated the lore.
Even the preacher in Whiterun uses the term "Earth" in place of "Nirn" in the context of Earth being a planet or space.

I just think that Skyrim's main plot is best when viewed as part of the TES series rather than on its own because then it does have the backdrop of Talos and Alessia and Akatosh and Dragon Breaks.

They don't have to be. The important part isn't what the Akatosh timeline became, but that he even exists, because not being Akatosh makes Alduin that much weaker.

And @soop: Dragon breaks are funny that way. Akatosh can give birth to someone who existed before he was invented. It's all a bonus of being Time itself.

That's my problem though, with reference to the lore - It doesn't fit with what was previously said.

I think it does. Alessia invents a god who starts existing and we're dealing with the blowback millenia down the line. Humans can remember the way things used to be and Dragons can't because dragons exist differently in time than humans do, so to them Alduin was never Akatosh but humans remember that he had been. Now the kalpa is all screwy because Alduin isn't strong enough to do the awful fighting.