Where are all the Dwarves?

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:23 pm

They should bring back dwarves just like the dragons came back, that would be AMAZING, DLC/next game? like the classic short bearded men. increase to smithing? idk that would just be REALLY cool
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Maya Maya
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 5:53 pm

The dwemer were, at first glance, superb craftsman and scientists, who left behind excellent weapons and armor, and fabulous machines that some of the best minds in Tamriel have struggled to understand for generations. If you look at them more carefully, however, you realize that there is much to them that is hard to understand; indeed, their values, goals, beliefs, and way of life seem almost incomprehensible.

A subplot in TES III: Morrowind, was seeking out the fate of the Dwemer. The Nerevarine encounters the last of the Dwemer, a guest of the great Dunmer sorceror Divayth Fyr, who tells how he was separated from his people, how he has searched for traces of them for centuries, but no trace can be found. It is known that the Dwemer vanished, all at once, when the tonal architect Kagrenac used his tools upon the Heart of Lorkhan, at the end of the Battle of Red Mountain in the First Era. What became of them is uncertain. The dominant theory, hereabouts, based upon a comment by MK, is that they became the "golden skin" of Numidium, also known as the Brass God, which was engineered by the Dwemer to transcend a universe they found unsatisfactory. Whether their fate and that of Numidium would be considered a success or a failure by the Dwemer, and whether that is even a meaningful question, remains a mystery.
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courtnay
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 11:45 pm

They should bring back dwarves just like the dragons came back, that would be AMAZING, DLC/next game? like the classic short bearded men. increase to smithing? idk that would just be REALLY cool
That concept of dwarves has pretty much been rolled into Tamrielic orcs.
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Johanna Van Drunick
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:32 pm

lore, read
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Nicole M
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:31 am

They should bring back dwarves just like the dragons came back, that would be AMAZING, DLC/next game? like the classic short bearded men. increase to smithing? idk that would just be REALLY cool
No.
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Judy Lynch
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:09 pm

The dominant theory, hereabouts, based upon a comment by MK, is that they became the "golden skin" of Numidium, also known as the Brass God, which was engineered by the Dwemer to transcend a universe they found unsatisfactory.

Were can I find this?
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MR.BIGG
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 6:49 am

They should bring back dwarves just like the dragons came back, that would be AMAZING, DLC/next game? like the classic short bearded men. increase to smithing? idk that would just be REALLY cool
lore, read
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Adam
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:03 pm

Were can I find this?
http://imperial-library.info/content/final-report-trebonius, in the FSG.
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M!KkI
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 5:58 pm

They became the skin of the Numidium? Thats an explination which both Yagrum and Skyrim dispute.

Yagrum states that the interuption of the process of tapping into the Heart caued a backlash which resulted in 1 of 2 possibilities. Either the Dwemer were utterly destroyed (Though not erased from the timeline, otherwise their ruins wouldn't exist either) or were transported beyond the known multiverse. Considering we know through the Infernal City that there are planes of existance well, well beyond Oblivion.

You also have to consider the experement to recreate the dissapearance in Skyrim. It doesn't result in said mage becomming a Dwemer ingot.
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CxvIII
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 pm

You also have to consider the experement to recreate the dissapearance in Skyrim. It doesn't result in said mage becomming a Dwemer ingot.
That's not what "golden skin of the Numidium" means (though I can see how you came to this conclusion). What the quote means is that they were absorbed into the Numidium, binding themselves to it. Skyrim actually supports this: after the scholar performs his experiment you are able to summon his ghost. He has bound himself to the nearest divine being, who just so happens to be the Dovahkiin (rather than Numidium, in the Dwemer's case).
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Max Van Morrison
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:54 pm

They became the skin of the Numidium? Thats an explination which both Yagrum and Skyrim dispute.

Yagrum states that the interuption of the process of tapping into the Heart caued a backlash which resulted in 1 of 2 possibilities. Either the Dwemer were utterly destroyed (Though not erased from the timeline, otherwise their ruins wouldn't exist either) or were transported beyond the known multiverse. Considering we know through the Infernal City that there are planes of existance well, well beyond Oblivion.

You also have to consider the experement to recreate the dissapearance in Skyrim. It doesn't result in said mage becomming a Dwemer ingot.
Yagrum's statement accords with the idea perfectly, and the Skyrim experiment is a direct confirmation of *exactly* that! Don't take things overly literally. He didn't turn into a Dwemer ingot just as the Dwemer didn't comically transform into brass doorknobs. Kagrenac's experiments bound the Dwemer to the Numidium (becoming the "skin" of the Brass God), and Arniel's experiments performed the exact same thing on a much smaller scale, binding him to the Dovahkiin.
edit: ninja'd :ninja:
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Paula Rose
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:28 am

That's not what "golden skin of the Numidium" means (though I can see how you came to this conclusion). What the quote means is that they were absorbed into the Numidium, binding themselves to it. Skyrim actually supports this: after the scholar performs his experiment you are able to summon his ghost. He has bound himself to the nearest divine being, who just so happens to be the Dovahkiin (rather than Numidium, in the Dwemer's case).

Yes, after i wrote that my brother informed me that you can summon the bugger. I have yet to use a single summing spell or pwoer in over 200 hours of gameplay, so i clearly missed that. I recind my earlier comment, and can now see the perspective.

However, If you consider what Yagrum says in regards to being transported to an outer plane, it leaves things conviently open for a Dwemer return. Something of an obvious plot device, and a potential which i for one would not be too fond of.
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Sanctum
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:09 am

They should bring back dwarves just like the dragons came back
The dragons have always been around, they've just been invisible, and very, very quiet.

Though seriously, Arena, Daggerfall, Battlespire, Redguard, and Oblivion all had dragons or dragon-like things.
  • In Arena, at least one of the city images includes dragons flying about.
  • Daggerfall had "dragonlings", which aren't technically dragons, but they're some kind of flying, fire-breathing lizard. Close enough. The game was going to have actual dragons, though -- a witch was going to have a dragon familiar (there's a character portrait of him in the game files), and it was going to have a 3d modelled dragon (the model is apparently abscent, but the skin for it is there still).
  • Battlespire had the skeleton of a dragon that was ridden by an Imperial Battlemage (IIRC).
  • Redguard had Naafalilargus. The PGE that came with the game also made mention of dragons flying about in the Imperial City.
  • Oblivion had Akatosh.
Unlike the Dwemer (who bear little resemblance to the typical fantasy Dwarf), TES hasn't shied away from dragons, even if they were scantly used. The whole point of the dwarves, though, is that they're a lost race that attempted to achieve "divinity" by un-creating themselves. Bringing them back would destroy what they are.
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Chloe Lou
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:25 am

However, If you consider what Yagrum says in regards to being transported to an outer plane, it leaves things conviently open for a Dwemer return. Something of an obvious plot device, and a potential which i for one would not be too fond of.
Indeed, and while I'm also not fond of the thought, I have a nagging suspicion that Bethesda is deliberately leaving the possibility open.

By the way, on the topic of the dwarves, a friend of mine and I were talking about TES when he mentioned that not all the dwemer are gone. I think I'm pretty knowledgeable with regards to lore, so I said "What? Yes they are, except the one with corprus in Morrowind". He said something about some of them moving to "the other continent" (presumably Akavir?) and me "not keeping up on my TES lore".
Pretty sure I have been keeping up on my TES lore, but I bought Skyrim for him a few weeks before I got it myself and thought he might've known something I haven't seen yet (also he's generally smarter than me in everything).

So while I'm pretty sure he was wrong and there are no Dwemer left, just thought I'd make sure that there's no new hint of something that I missed. Is there?
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Chrissie Pillinger
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 7:30 am

Not that I know of. As you mentioned, Bethesda has been keeping the possibility subtly open and the issue deliberately confused, but nothing resembling "they're still here."
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Emma-Jane Merrin
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 4:41 am

Technically, Numidium still exists in different realities, and with a bit of pseudo-retcon, a writer could make it so that the mechanics of their racial transubstantiation could be reversed to a degree. I'm not saying the entire race should return or even allow for any of them to regain their old forms, but it would be cool to commune with them to some degree.

Doesn't the lore say that Numidium was so existentially solid, that its very existence denies other adjacent, possible realities? Well that's how I took it at least; that bit about singing world-refusals and the Aedra being formless and shifting with Numidium being static, like a giant anchor that never changes.
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Hannah Whitlock
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 11:06 pm

Not that I know of. As you mentioned, Bethesda has been keeping the possibility subtly open and the issue deliberately confused, but nothing resembling "they're still here."
Thanks. For a while I was really doubting myself, wondering if maybe there was a postcard from Akavir tucked away in a dark corner of Skyrim showing some dwarves in swim trunks on a sunny beach drinking margaritas.
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Krystal Wilson
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:11 am

Hmmm... I would like to posit the theory that Akatosh had something to do with their disappearence. Almost every single one of them disappeared, at once, when they were about to achieve immortality. At the very least he would have felt threatened.
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Chloe Lou
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 5:05 am

Hmmm... I would like to posit the theory that Akatosh had something to do with their disappearence. Almost every single one of them disappeared, at once, when they were about to achieve immortality. At the very least he would have felt threatened.
It has been explained already in many other threads. That's just a wild guess with no foundation.
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Sheila Esmailka
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 12:35 am

Dwemer are not dwarves.

Dwarves do not exist in TES.

Dwemer are nothing like Dwarves in the slightest.

Dwemer became Numidiums golden skin.
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renee Duhamel
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 8:55 am

They got sick of the Chimer and left. Last report is that they relocated the to the North Pole and are working in Santa's sweatshops, earning less than minimum wage.

Sweatshops? Eeeww :yuck:

Dwemer are not dwarves.

Dwarves do not exist in TES.

Dwemer are nothing like Dwarves in the slightest.

Dwemer became Numidiums golden skin.

Dude, don't, just don't. XD
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Sweet Blighty
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:35 pm

Except that in the TES universe, souls, ancient spirit beings percieved as gods, and higher planes of existence not only exist, but are fully verifiable, studiable and manipulable through science. In the same way we understand electromagnetism scientifically and use it to do our bidding, the dwarves understanding of the world beyond and spirits gave them the tools to create amazing technologies using the scientific method.

Unfortunately they eventually made something - the Numidium - which ultimately un-made their entire race; they erased their race from the timeline.

Science is not the rejection of/non-existance of "gods" or "souls"; that'd be Atheism. The scientific process is the process of studying and refining knowledge, and in a scenario where souls and the divine not only exist, but are subject to study and anolysis then they too become part of the scientific process. 9It just so happens that in our world atheism is synonymous with science because there has never been any verifiable evidence supporting the existance of any kind of soul or gods)
Right. "Any sufficiently anolyzed magic is indistinguishable from technology." is the relevant quote, the converse to Clarke's third law.
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Frank Firefly
 
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