When you travel to Oblivion in the game Oblivion, where exactly are you? Are you this mortal that has stepped into mehrunes dagon's realm?

Yes, you are. The Shivering Isles are also a realm of Oblivion.

Ah, thanks. One more question, when you get the Mehrunes' Razor, or any daedric artifact for that matter, are those artifacts created by mortals but presented to you only by daedra? I mean, the daedra can't create anything, so I'm assuming these were all made by mortals. Am I right?

Being unable to create does not mean they can't make weapons. Daedra can't create in the sense that they can't create what a mortal can't. Daedrics weapons are created by Daedra by binding a daedric soul to a sword form, therfefore changing, but to create. Daedra can create weapons, but not worlds. I play on the ps3 version, so I don't know about Mehrunes' Razor. Goldbrand and Umbra, for example, were not shaped by mortal hands.

So.... were are these artifacts at, is what I'm asking. Does azura have a box full of azura's stars behind her? I mean, she gave one to the champion of daggerfall, to the nerevarine, and to the CoC. How do you explain that? That's three total, at least.
And same thing for all the other fifteen daedra who give artifacts. Where are these artifacts at?

No, forget what I said. A more accurate way to put it is that the materials, such as souls, for Daedric Artifacts already exist, therefore Daedra can reshape them and change them for use. They do not create out of thin air, but can make things out of existing material, as Daedra can change things.

The Daedric princes most likely remember how to use materials to make(not create, but make) artifacts out of existing materials. If you play the Shivering Isles main quest, you see that the secrets to Daedric artifacts' manufacture are not lost, but kept somewhere that a Daedric Prince should be able to access somehow. You actually recreate a Daedric artifact in the SI.

I think I get what you're saying. The Oghma Infinium, for example, was written by xarxes. But when it's used by the wielder, it disappears. But the daedra can use their divine powers to change an ordinary book into the oghma infinium again for the next summoner? Same with Spell Breaker and Volendrung? From reading about these: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Artifacts#Azura.27s_Star it seems like they are meant to be given once and only one of them exists. The dwarves didn't create two warhammers or two tower shields. Not I'm confused again. How can all these artifacts keep on appearing and reappearing for each game? If the daedra take a regular warhammer and change it into the volendrung, technically, it's not the same one because the originally was created by the dwarves and the subsequent ones are just a regular one changed into a replica.

These items are known to switch users as well, so that may be why they appear several times. My point is that through intense focus, new Daedric artifact may be formed, but it is not simple. When I recreated a Daedric Artifact, it required rare and powerful factors and items to make. If you don't accept the recreation theory, then the switching users idea works in my opinion. I may be wrong, as I have developed these theories myself, but it makes sense to me. There is a book in Oblivion that states many artifacts switch users.

I think the artifacts find their own way back to their masters in Oblivion, or to new masters.

CORRECT! From what you can read in books, artifacts, atleast the extremely powerful kind, have a will of their own and leave their owners to return to their original owners. Like azura's star. Daggerfal champion died so the star went back to azura. Neravine is missing in action and is the neravine. In other words extremely powerful. What use does he/she have for the star? It go's back to azura. COC is damn near god status so in the next game it will have left his/her possession.

What? Wasn't Umbra enchanted by the witch Naenra Waerr?

Was it?

Yup. A witch created that weapon for the soul purpose of harvesting souls. It justs moves around because it's constantly leaving ownership due to deaths/ winning in duels/leaving it somewhere/etc.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks. It also explains why if your PC keeps it in the last game and then doesn't have it in the next game; good for if you use the same character for each of the games, as I do.

From Tamrielic Lore;

"Spell Breaker, superficially a Dwemer tower shield, is one of the most ancient relics of Tamriel. Aside from its historical importance in the Battle of Rourken-Shalidor, the Spell Breaker protects its wielder almost completely from any spell caster, either by reflecting magicks or silencing any mage about to cast a spell. It is said that Spell Breaker still searches for its original owner, and will not remain the property of anyone else for long. For most, possessing Spell Breaker for any length of time is power enough."

"Another of Hircine's artifacts was the Cuirass of the Savior's Hide. The Cuirass has the special ability to resist magicka. Legend has it that Hircine rewarded his peeled hide to the first and only mortal to have ever escaped his hunting grounds. This unknown mortal had the hide tailored into this magical Cuirass for his future adventures. The Savior's Hide has a tendency to travel from hero to hero as though it has a mind of its own."

Many artifacts behave similarly.

I'm wondering, what if someone else summons a dedra and does the quest and gets the artifact before you do? Are you still able to summon the daedra and do the quest and also receive the artifact? The CoC is not the only one summoning daedra. I'm thinking that if that happened, which in reality it would, that the artifact would suddenly disappear from the current holder and go into the hands of the new holder until another mortal did the quest for the daedra. It's like, the artifact, whichever one it may be, keeps jumping from user to user each time a new person summons one of the daedra.
What are your thoughts?

Whenever an artifact falls into the possession of another, I believe it's usually referenced in context such as "chose another" or "found itself within the hands of another". This somewhat implies the artifacts are sentient and "choose" their bearer, though this may actually be direct manipulation by the Daedric prince themself. They love that sort of thing, after all.

Honestly, I'm sure that Daedric princes have plenty of different "gifts" to bestow upon those who do their bidding. There's probably plenty of other artifacts, as well as other potential rewards for the summoners, such as forbidden knowledge or a powerful spell. I believe it's more a game limitation than anything - Bethesda originally created artifacts during Arena/Daggerfall when the series was more DnDesque and you could simply see them as "rare treasures".

However, they've remained with the series due to how useful (and undoubtedly iconic) they are. Would you rather waste time developing a bunch of different potential goodies to be distributed among Daedric quests with varying levels of utility or recycle the unanimously-awesome "artifacts"? Actually don't answer that question - I could see realistic jurisdictions for either of these. Point is, it's more of a game limitation than anything else.

If you really want to look deeply into it however, the Nerevarine prophecies, CHIM, and remarks by Dyus/Jyggalag imply that the main character is indeed "special" and able of controlling their fate. Perhaps that's just it then - it is destiny that brings these invaluable items into our hands as opposed to those of the others. Well, or maybe the Princes (especially ones such as Boethiah and Azura) simply know of your quest and inevitable victory and want to help you out.

Ah, thanks.
But another thing I don't get is that a daedric realm IS the daedra. Mehrunes Dagon's realm is destruction, and Dagon IS destruction. He is the realm. He's bound to destruction, which is why you can't kill him because to kill Mehrunes Dagon would be to kill destruction, and you can't kill destruction. So is the realm of Oblivion that you're in just the mortal perception of Mehrunes Dagon's sphere? But to Mehrunes Dagon, it doesn't look like that at all?

No. Some Deadric principalities may be like that, but not Mehrunes Dagon's. Mehrunes dagon is not at all subtle, his whole persona is centered around straight forwardness - he doesn't see the need for illusions or tricks. That is why he chooses to appear as a classic blood thirsty demon with horns, and that is why his realm is an inferno of fire and violent storms. It is exactly the way he wants it to be, and that is how you see it.

But to really answer your question, yes. He could see it differently (he can do anything), but it would not at all fit his style.

Rourken. Weren't they the Hammerfell clan?



I've always seen it as being the way the prince chooses to manifest their realm as a reflection of their sphere and personality. Hence why Sheogorath's Madhouse supports humans. There's no madness if there's nobody to experience it. We already know they can manifest in whatever physical form they want, when dealing with mortals, I'd assume its the same with their realms.

I imagine it looks to Dagon like the inside of our minds look to us.

Thanks, that cleared it up.

You never go to oblivion its self: it is space in a different dimension. But you go to Mehrunes Dagon's Sphere (planet) in that demension. you also go to Seogorath's sphere, but it is in the same demension. in theory if you had a limitless supply of magica, you could levitate out of either sphere into oblivion, and then go into any other deadric sphere.

The daedric artifacts were made from parts of the daedra themselves, sme with their realms. that is why you can re-make the staff of Seogorath, you use things made out of him, because they are from his realm. they make is and enchant it. the way they get from one hero to another is... complicated.

A daedric prince has the power to reclaim what they made, because what they made is part of them. They can take it from you randomly, or once you die. then, they can give it two someone else. every hero dies or disappears at the end of their game. The Daedra take their items back.

Getting a daedric item is a loan, not a gift.

When you go to Mehrunes Dagon's realm, you are in the Deadlands, which is part of Oblivion. Further, when you go to Sheogorath's realm, you are in the Shivering Isles, which is also a part of Oblivion. Therefore, if you are in a Daedric realm, you are also in Oblivion. Oblivion is not "outside" of or separate from any of the realms of the 16 princes of misrule.

Saying Oblivion is outside or separate is like standing in your bedroom and saying, "I am in my bedroom, but I am not in my house."

Just like to add something on topic related to something earlier about artifacts switching users, we have to remember that anything the daedra create is likely to cause chaos despair, e.g. Mehrunes Razor caused internal wars in the DB, The Masque of Clavicus Vile caused a women to be completely shunned abandoned when she took of her mask, Umbra is a sword which literally possesses it's wielder by it's need to corrupt souls.

Even the so called 'good' daedra's artifacts such as Azura eventually lead to despair, Azura's star is literally an artifact which allows the wielder to capture a massive amount of souls, what i'm getting at is that with such artifacts there is likely to be chaos and blood-shed over them, in the midst of such a disaster the artifact can simply be willed back after having completed it's true job, causing chaos and despair.

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.