Where do soul gems come from? I remember getting a few off of the bodies of dead Bonelords in Morrowind, so what does that mean?

Are they the congeled essence of spiritual energy, or are they simple gems? And if they are simple gems, are they mined, and if so, where?

You do realise that some dev is now going to have ot make something up?

For shame on you adding to their workload!

They are associated with Molag Bal and hence with vampirism.

If I am not mistaken, in the Imperial Census of Daedra Lords, Molag Bal is referred to as the "Father of Soulgems".

The http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/census_daedra.shtml

That Molag Bal is allowed his holiday at all hearkens back to a treaty of ancient times, when he reputedly lent his infernal power to the creation of the first soulgems.

http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/liminal_bridges.shtml suggests the stones themselves occur naturally:

Though some common morpholiths like soul gems may be found in nature...

Also, Battlespire had the Ideal Masters, gem-like vampiric necromancers.

Uh...so...they grow like crystals?

When a Daedra Prince and a vampire are deeply in love. . .

rephrase that to: when a rock and a deadra prince are madly in love...

i reckon they occur naturally as crystals (or argonian eggs) but need to be modified magically to hold the soul. Bal may be the originator of the practice, hence his title.

Lol. Sounds like my Biology class...only in a metaphysical...kind...of......way.......nevermind.

Anywho, so how is it that Molag Bal is in charge of souls in the first place?

That's like making a satist work in dentistry. Them two together do not mix.

Edit: forgot quotes

We know who started the practice according to the above and approx what he did at the beginning in a round-about way
note it says the first soul gems - so others may be able to do this now.

- and thanks to Albides researches also we know exactly where sigilstones come from and how they are made ready for use.

However it seems that 'simple' sould gems now appear to appear mysteriously = very strange and poss good material for a mod / book = New Lore. Given the Molag Baal only produced them in the beginning.

What I would draw your attention to are the gigantic crystals in the heart of the Telvanni Mushroom Strongholds on Vvardenfell and also in various caverns where mages had set up researches into Daedra.

There was no explanation for these gigantic crystals either - but it's the only place I have seen such so far that might be close. As if by reaching out to Daedra and outside sources of power these things are drawn into the Mundus or Because they were already there in those caverns bu tthe uninitiated have not understood their significance.

Worth a competition for the best submission? Some of you guys might run it ...

Could be from any place on Nirn or beyond that was accessible to Maolag Bal ... so that opens it up totally.

your making my head hurt, but i think that was an insult

They're ID-ed as magic rocks in the editor and as you mentioned found in high magic area's. They're also growing in the Ayleid ruins, creeping through the stone work like mold and there is a reference to an area around the Halls of the Colossus being contaminated with something called glow rock after some sort of fallout happened. To top it of there are Lithnilian's research notes with more mentions of growing magical crystals.

So if you're looking for an explanation, http://www.monsterguide.net/how-to-grow-salt-crystals.shtml would be a good start. The principles appear to be the same.

I forgot to mention the linking of magika to radiation in texts about Meridia and noting that the Altmer have fascination with retaining magic and crystals, hence it's called cyrstalized change every now and then.

So anyway what is the point of suggesting a mod/contest if you don't even bother to look? If you're actually interested in the anwser phrase your qeustion that way. If only somebody could mod me a Geiger counter.

Reminds me of the "glow rock" mentioned in http://www.imperial-library.info/interviews/skelm.shtml by the Khajiit that's near the Hall of Colossus.

Well I have read your bits - and there is no description of the various crystals mentioned. So they could be anything - but let's assume they are what was in the caves of Morrowind and other places there.

A lot of Skeleton man's interview is off the point - possibly intentionally so - so we know of the Halls of the Collossus and the radiation there nie? You think it could be crystals there are connected - maybe - suggesting that they are formed through the presence of concentrated magica/power - but then none of the Tribunal appeared to have them in their abodes (... not that they would have needed them.)

Thank you for drawing my attention to these fascinating topics, which I am sure will be most useful, [edit - non-essential content] The link mentions salt crystals too - no sign of magic crystals though ...

I did learn about Crystalisation in chemistry about - well longer ago than you've been around

I have not played Oblivion - I have no plans to do so - therefore unlike with the Lore of Morrowind and Daggerfall (plus part of Battlespire before that computer self-immolated itself), which I spent many, many fine hours with, I rely on the precociousness of people like you (most of whom joined these forums several years after I did) to bring me these tidbits on the new Lore - call it questing if you will. In this case none of the answers is really precisely informative , eh? Too bad.

Can anyone remember a cave in Morrowind that had the giant Crystals but no mages?

However the question of where soul gems come from 'nowadays' is still unanswered and no link between soul gems and these giant crystals is as yet forthcoming.

Re Welkynd Stones - they seem to differ in properties from the Morrowind ones. What I am wondering now is were the ones in Morrowind (if they are the same stones) tuned to power the Summon Daedra spells in so very many locations?

If yes then Daedra permanently found in various dungeon locations may be being summoned and held in place by this means - or maybe the stones power a reactivation of various summoning spells. That suggests that various mages and the Telvanni in Morrowind have mastered the ancient Ayelied discoveries. but there were no books on how to do this commonly available ...

There was a dungeon in the dungeons under a Fort in Morrowind that was full of Daedra - did they also had these great crystals?

Mind you I don't fancy carrying about a 15ft tall crystal whenever I go questing!

Soul Gems appear to be quite different in properties though - so I guess they are from a very different source - too bad.

Could the differrent kinds of soul gem each have their provenance in different Daedric realms of Oblivion, or are they imported from another continent?

Any other ideas?

I'd suspect the crystals seen in Morrowind differ, having more to do with transportation. They seem to have a strong association with Daedra appearances, as mentioned, but they also are part of the Propylon Ring that allows one to teleport around Vvardenfel (each of the obelisks has a http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/4561/screenshot146zl8.png on the ceiling with the arcs of light/energy/whatever reaching haphazardly up towards them. Also, the "http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2789/screenshot147em2.png" which surround the obelisk are lined with what appears to be a similar crystal material. The obelisk itself is also crystalline, though it's composition differs. I'd suspect it to be more of an anchor or beacon for the device such that the reaction between the claws provides the power, the crystal formation opens the link, and the obelisk sets the anchor point. But that's just pure theory born from roleplaying a curious mage...)

Just going off my own fanciful musings, it could be that the stones create a link between two locations?namely one stone and another. By tapping into this, one can move from one to the other as in the strongholds, or from Oblivion to Mundus as seen in the caves (in which case, one would have to wonder if such stones also exist in Oblivion, or if something else is the cause of the link.) A part of me wants to liken them, in the latter case, to the chimes which were mentioned in SI. Not that they're the same thing, but that it's a similar notion, an item acting as a beacon which lures the Daedra to it like a kitten to a paper bag (though I suppose a more likely answer is the one suggested, that the mages are tapping into them to open conduits between Mundus and Oblivion and bringing in the Daedra. Hence why each Propylon Chamber isn't stuffed to bursting with the little crocodiles. The reason they don't just draw in Daedra on their own is that they lack an anchor and, perhaps, energy, which the mage aptly provides. Still, it would remain that their basic function is to create a passage between two points.)

Though crystal formations can be found in TES IV, I wouldn't be quick to say that they're the same. They're only found growing naturally once, and according to the mission they're involved in, that's quite the rare occurrence. If the Welkynd are the same as the crystals, then it would seem odd that the Ayelids would use them only for lighting (though, as the ruins seem to be the crypts which once were below the actual cities, it could be that they served a more religious purpose as a sort of symbolism. If the stone creates a link between two planes, then they could be seen as a symbol for the link between this world and Aetherius. That they give off light is only a bonus. The Varla stones would serve as an even stronger religious symbol, as they are crafted from "meteoric glass," thus completing the cycle. One stone from Mundus which links to Aetherius, and one stone which "came" from the Aetherius back to Mundus. I'd also doubt that Welkynd give off radiation; Varla might, though, as the Ayelids seemed to prefer keeping them caged. They are more "pure" after all.) That said, they might be similar. I'd still keep my reservations, though, as no one seems to indicate that they serve any functions akin to the Morrowind crystals. They may have simply been related to Ayelid religion and ceremony, of which much is lost ("Fingers of the Mountain," in this sense, could be seen as a sort of flashy religious ceremony...)

But getting back to the actual subject, what exactly comprises a soul in the TES-verse? As recycled "souls" seem to have little connection with their former selves, could it be that souls are more energy than mind? Basically, the soul would be the energy which sustains the being, and the reason for its reuse is simply that to create anew demands the introduction of more energy into the system. Soul gems, then, would simply be a means of trapping that energy/magicka/essence and then using it however the holder sees fit.

And for some reason, a part of me wants to associate Molag Bal with mythological Ba'al Moloch? Though that's completely irrelevant.

Hmm, I think I've just found out what I'm going to do tomorrow... (*thinks of sugar crystals* :liplick: )

A mixture of Borax and Epsom Salt produces a much more interesting crystal growth.

Go read some more about the principle behind it. Why does the magic/salt crystallize? Do some lateral thinking, it's not so hard if you try.



You're forgetting about the ones the crack up the marble in Ayleid ruins like mold.



A connection between the person and the Dreemsleeve. Think it as one mind, one divinity, that encompasses all personalities. Each soul is a personality in this schizophrenic mind.

Also: BARBELiTH we're all just in your head.

Thanks Kitamelari! Your view is very tasty and I like the way you work your ideas.



There is one aspect here - the tale of Feyfolken from TES3 suggests that particular Daedra's soul bound into a pen was fully sentient. Not discounting the thought that this might have been fanciful talespinning, but I do like the concepts presented in that tale - they offer so many delicious possibilities for the enterprisiing modder.

Maybe the process used to bind decides how 'sentient' the bound soul appears. There is the matter of what facilities the gem provides for the soul to affect things outside itself and the perception of the viewer - no mouth, ears, movement etc ... TES2 & 3 Lore suggests that the reason mortal human/mer/bestfolk souls are pewrmitted (by arkay?) to be bound is that they suffer terribly and go insane?

Ofc Molog Bal and Ba'al Moloch are connected if only by the name(s) Let the scoffers deny - and commonsense prevail once in a while. (They can prove 1 is equal to -1 mathematically - but does that mean it is true?)

Thanks a bunch for the reminder of the Propylon Chambers that ties it together a bit. grr - remember them all too well now - they used to do weird things to my computer - serious lagging there.

Maybe that means the Chimer/Dunmer went a lot further than the Aylieds in this? And also I would imagine that the Mages Guild Tele-chambers & Summoning Rooms could have Crystals concealed in their structure too? It would explain how a lowly apprentice mage can teleport people all day long!


I have done quite a bit of lateral thinkin ty - are you a dwemmer at heart? Nothing against natural crystal formation. But soul gems feel as if they have unique properties that indicate a bit more than 'mundane' principals at work is all. In which case your reference is admirable and appropriate. Besides if I had specified a specific myself I am sure someone would be outraged But I will remove some of the content from my post before your leg comes off

Also Gems and Crystals are different.

However I can see Mages 'growing' their own crystals to order in their caves = why I was interested if anyone could remember an instance in an uninhabited cave.

raggidman discretely bundles up and sends off a small package labelled 'Native religious goodies made in Tenmar - quality guaranteed' for M'Aiq - (who hopefully will not experiment with weird concoctions).

The gems don't matter.

- http://www.imperial-library.info/tsorg/part08.shtml

Now that's good - I didn't play Redguard - problems with computer - and your quote's from in-game = fine Lore if you believe that Argonian (why not?) he seems to be a devoted translator and so dedicated to the truths that he hears and sees. I had read people talking about empty eggs and now here you have brought the reference!

So are soul gems like eggs in some fashion? They provide a 'habitat' without a conflicting soul - Azura's star being unique and different from others.

Could soul gems contain biological matter or are they the eggs of Elementals perhaps? Looking at certain Elementals there is some similarity in the surface texture is there not? ... and presumably their 'eggs' would be tougher than the eggs the Argonians refer to.

If this is possible then a possible book would be about the mating habits and biology of Elementals ... and Lore on the Elemental Planes

Go read the Redgaurd storyline. Maybe you'll get some ideas.

:ahhh: Still waiting for you to explain why 'the gems don't matter' Proweler ... where they are obtained is in fact the theme of this thread