I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on where Sovngarde is. Is it part of Nirn? Or is it somewhere in the greater Mundus? Or not? D:

I think it's an Oblivion Realm

Just like Nocturnal has your soul if you're a Nightingale and if Hircine has your soul if you become a werewolf then I'm pretty sure Shor has your soul if your a brave Nordic warrior who died in battle.

But it might also be some sort of an Aetherius or Dreamsleeve where you don't get recycled and your soul simply stays there forever In my opinion though it's most likely and Oblivion Realm.

Isn't Shor an Aedra though? I thought only the Daedric lords laid claim to planes of Oblivion, and the Aedra/Nirn existed in the midst of Oblivion.

The realm is the body. Sovngarde is probably Masser.

I did not think about that O: WOW!

I believe the quest journal says that Sovngarde is a "realm of Aetherius" when you arrive there. But how reliable a quest journal is as a source is debatable.

Masser as Sovngarde sounds cool.

But realms that are not (d)aedra themselves require a constant influx of creatia. How the hell does that [censored] get channeled to Sovngarde when ol' Lorky is inoperable as a god?

UESP says that "The greater of Nirn's two moons, Masser is acknowledged as one of the attendant spirits of the mortal plane, and, like such, is both temporal and subject to the bounds of mortality"

If Masser is temporal and subject to the bounds of mortality, then how would it cater to the immortal spirits of the dead?

I'm pretty sure that Sovngarde is the Nord name for Aetherius. So it is part of Aetherius.

Well so where are the Magna-Ge and why won't the souls that go to Sovngarde recycle themselves through the Dreamsleeve? :facepalm:

"Rolf could not believe his good fortune, and his foolishness for not having realized the truth so many years before. For death was the entrance to Sovngarde. So he was told by Shor himself, who greeted Rolf the Large as a brother, and personally handed him a leg of roast mutton and the hand of a comely wench. Sovngarde, Shor told him, can be entered by any Nord who dies valiantly in honorable combat." (From http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sovngarde,_a_Reexamination)

Shor would also not be in Aetherius... he cannot be.

Basically if you are valorous Shor claims your soul for Sovngarde, like how if you are a werewolf Hircine claims your soul. If a god gets your soul, you aren't reincarnated as normal.

Its possible Sovngarde operates as a ship of sorts, seeing as how the Nords seem to (Correct me if I'm wrong) exist Kalpa to Kalpa. I can't get my head around it being in Aetherius, as that is supposed to be off limits.

In old Norse myth Valhalla is the where warriors stayed for the final battle, where they sail in a ship made from toenails. Halls in Skyrim and old Norway are made by overturning a boat and building walls under it, so of course Sovngarde is some sort of vessel. The warriors claimed by Shor probably participate in the final battle and the new Dawn Era.

As I understand it, Sovngarde is just the Nord name for Aetherius, because they have to have a Nord name for everything just to make things nice and confusing. Of course, ever since Nord Akatosh was called Alduin, and suddenly, they had to separate out Alduin from Akatosh, that suddenly means there's more validity to the notion that maybe there are acutally completely different gods in play when you walk from province to province.

In the normal traditions, though, people believe they go to Aetherius when they die, but actually get put into the Dreamsleeve to continue onwards with reincarnation. It is possible they stay there for a while, however. After all, it sure took the Nerevar quite a while to get reincarnated. So maybe Sovngarde is just a special little corner of Aetherius/the Dreamsleeve where Nordic warriors like to hang out and take longer to get reincarnated than normal.

They are, after all, dead, and "passing on to the next world" would basically be just another reincarnation just like everyone else, they just seem to wait until after the next world opens up before they set up shop in this case.

[censored] THAT! IT'S SECUNDA!

I don't think it's either of the moons, as they're both the dead chunks of Lorkhan bound to the mortal realm. >.>

And Sovngarde is Shor's realm. Think Daedric princes.

This confuses me though, because Shor is supposed to be the Nordic version of Lorkhan, and Lorkhan is dead, as evidenced by the Red Mountain and the moons. How would he be able to have his own realm still? Unless, when an aedra died, its spirit also went to Aetherius? I suppose then Shor could just chill in Aetherius and cater to dead Nords while they waited for the end of times or whatever...

The moons, Masser and Secunda, are Lorkhan/Shor/Shezarr. As for having his own realm, the planets are the realm who are the god. Think daedric princes to understand it easier. With the princes, they are their realm, and the realm is they.

Also, a god's death isn't the same as a mortal's death. Shor may be dead, but he still keep appearing, often causing a lot of [censored] to happen, with his most famous forms being Pelinal and Wulfharth.

I've been starting to doubt the whole "Dreamsleeve" theory. Or rather, the idea that mortal souls only see what they want to see while they're being stripped of their identities and memories. I'm just not seeing sufficient evidence or indication of it.

There is a distinct lack of good information in-game about the Dreamsleeve. Maybe it's not as Mr. Clean-y as we once thought (though clearly, still serves its purpose and is recognized by mystics great and small).


Also, I really like the idea of Sovngarde as a kind of "Far Shores" for Nords. You die Great, your soul/identity is worth preserving. You go to Sovngarde, party it up for a few [untranslatable], and when it's time for the next world to form, your essence (unstripped, or at least minimally so) gets to go be one of the sacrificing Earthbones, et'Ada, or even one of the First Nords of it.

Save the Best of the Best for the time when the Very Best are needed to sacrifice themselves (or, say, "die in one final, awesome struggle").

We don't know what happens to Nords who don't enter the Hall of Valor. Maybe you reincarnate if Tsun lops off your head?

Because I'm lazy I'll copy what I said over at TIL,
While I do think we have to admit that Sovngarde (and in turn the dreamsleeve) do have a manner of physicality (at least for those inside it), I'd still hesitate on ascribing any 'place' to them - that is, I don't think it's necessary to fix it anywhere within the Aurbis-as-we-know-it (Aetherius/Oblivion/Nirn/Pocket Realms). I'd still posit that it doesn't have any existence in this world, no placeness.

I'm not sure if we have enough information to build any fully functioning anolysis. For instance were we able to travel there physically as an exception to a rule, being dragonborn? How physical was our existence there, given that we don't really know the nature of the portal which transported us. Is it simply a spiritually percieved realm such as that we fought Umaril in, which we can understand as being spiritually percieved because our body never moved (though in that instance we had witnesses who could attest to our body's state, here we have no such witnesses)

Is it possible the portal transforms you into a spiritual form, thereby allowing you to enter Sovngarde as like substance? I think the fact that Alduin leaves no corpse may help this theory, Alduin was seemingly spirit. As for the player we can't really say, we know nothing of the nature of the portal that took you to Sovngarde. This still leaves it as a spiritual realm, without any placeness.

Shor has to hide himself from your mortal eyes, which to me implied that you were there physically. Doesn't necessarily mean so, of course, just my first reaction to the thought.

I think that Sovngarde is Aetherius for the Nords who die valiant deaths and who lead noble lives. For Altmer, Aetherius would be something else and for Bretons it would be another thing. As for the Dreamsleave, yes, souls might be recycled, but you might still remain in Sovngarde. Maybe you can seperate your life force from your soul? I am not sure, and I don't think it has been explained or ever will be. But what I know for sure is that there are some pretty damn old people still hanging around in Sovngarde who haven't been recycled yet (Ysgramor, Olaf One-Eye, etc.). The entire process is (intentionally?) unclear.