assimilation perhaps?

Idk maybe yes the armor styles started by the altmer and orcs were asian in "nature" but perhaps the smiths in the different parts of tamerial but their own influences in? colovian? dunmer? etc. each game takes place in a certain part of the world pretty much....maybe the orignal styles introduced begin to take on the particular cultural influences....or maybe the art team just wanted to change them...

And i have NEVER seen a kimono in TES.....a generic robe...yes.

I do like your idea for no armor morphing though im sure it would never be implemented.....its just too.....nich.

but then idiots dont realise that i am talking about oriental armour inspiration rather than give the armour unrealistic proportions and stuff. they then usualy say something about their hatred for asian mmo's

I dont get it, why should the armor focus more on asian design?

I mean skyrim sure is nordic? its really cold so they will need to make fur in the armors, i mean did you ever try to wear full metal armor in - 30 thats cold i presume.
so they will need to focus more on the barbarian armors, its possible that they get a kind of armor in mongol style because you can consider that as barbarian.
so there isnt much room for more asian armors because they dont fit in.

they do, skyrim is but a single country amidst an entire continent. things get imported.

Bethesda makes the game. Bethesda decides how it SHOULD look. And for me, it look completely awsome.

Anyway, I would like to know your concept of western. I other topic you said that orcish and daedric in Oblivion were western, while they are not at all. And the same with the elven in Skyrim: neither western nor asian, just elven.

This game is settled in Skyrim. Obviously, you won't see too many samurais...

BLASPHEMY!!!


morrowind had samurai, arena and daggerfall had samurai weaponry.

orcs are sound like they have a samurai equivalent .

i am pretty sure that if skyrim remains true to lore, then i will be able to get some orsimer/ancient/akavir/a certain dremora clan armour and katana and then run around mountains acting all MYSTICAL SAMURAI WHO DOES NOT HAVE MYSTICISM.

Sounds like the OP is jealous or something.

It is Skryim, inspired by Scandinavia. Too much asian'ish things doesnt fit in there.
There are plenty of asian-dominated rpgs and fantasy-games out there. Im glad to finally see a good rpg with some heavy inspiration from my own culture.

hurray that someone likes copy cat rpgs with no originality :toughninja:

I said too many. Of course we will see some asian stuff, in the video, in the shelves, among book about vikings, there was one called "Samurai". And the orcish armory looks quite asian (mongolian), yet having its uniqueness. The thing is that there will be more nordic stuff (a great thing for me, since I really like Scandinavian cultures). But you haven't answered me why do you say that in Oblivion orcish and daedric looked western. They didn't.




Is it not original for being nordic inspired...? Have you seen to many games with Skyrim atmosphere? Really, you can not like it, maybe you prefer asian stuff, but that DOESN'T mean that it's not original.

Imo the Orcish armour looks more reminiscent of medieval Klingon, check out the boots.

Because a game can only be original if it has asian things in it? You are a troll.

Orcish stuff have that samurai look. But as "pure"asian stuff, I believe it's the Akavir...

That piece of concept art with the Jap inspired Altmer doesn't really mean Elven stuff is and must be Japanese based. I mean in the same game, the Elven armour was not Asian, and that was more prevalent then that single image.

Orc amor definetly has asian feel to it in Oblivion as it did in Morrowind (wasn't there Orc armor concept shown in last GI video? and it looked like it had Mongolian feel to it). Also I'd love to have those Morrowind wakizashis and throwing stars back!

By the way about the briast-bulges on female armor variants: http://l-clausewitz.livejournal.com/384382.html . I don't have anything againts them but in real life they would/might be a hazard to the fighter as is explained in that article and if such armor would be made it'd be ceremonial most likely.

On the topic of cleavage and/or briast-shaped armor plating being "immature objectification" - which is a valid opinion that I respect and am not trying to invalidate or say is "wrong" - I would just like to offer my own differing personal feelings and opinion on the matter, which are as follows.

No one complains about men being portrayed as scantily clad, muscle-bound, Conan-esque cave men in movie after movie, book after book, and game after game. To the contrary, many (I would say most or all of the women I have the privilege of knowing) seem to enjoy this portrayal of men. (Can you say "Gerard Butler in 300?") Now, don't get me wrong. I'm one of those guys who can barely even make eye contact with women for fear that they'll think I'm "checking them out," because I do respect women and their feelings. But the fact is, women "objectify" men just as much as they feel men do women. Women talk about their respective boyfriends' anatomies with one another. They look at pictures of shirtless body builders or their favorite movie stars. They read steamy romance novels. And there's nothing wrong with that. Why? Because this it is a normal biological impulse to be physically attracted to whatever gender your sixual orientation dictates. If you're a man or a gay woman, that means women. If you're a woman or a gay man, that means men.

Are women sometimes oppressed, sixually harassed, or objectified? Yes. Absolutely. And I staunchly oppose such behavior. On the other hand, is there a double standard now that allows men to be objectified without outcry, and that vilifies men for their normal human thoughts and feelings? Yes, unequivocally. Furthermore, is there a double standard wherein women portray themselves in a sixually provocative manner but then vilify men for noticing that? Hell yes. That's why there are now people like me who won't even look at a girl, because we don't know if it's alright or not. Just saying. Some balance and lightening up on all sides is needed, in my opinion. They're just briasts, and this is just a videogame. No one is forcing any real women to "take it off." And if anyone was, I'm sure a lot of the guys here who advocate the "oversixed" look of these fictional characters would be the first to stand up and put a stop to it. In short, liking cleavage isn't sixist, anymore than liking ripped abs is sixist.

Back on the actual topic of this thread: the visual style of armor, weapons, and races has changed from TES to TES. It's always been this way and it always will be this way.

Peace.

Protip: Treating the people who will read your thread as "idiots" isn't the best approach, and it's also not conducive to good discussion, since it gives the impression that you will just belittle anyone who disagrees, while you're really just doing the forum equivalent of stamping your feet and screaming for your way. And that text is a damn eyesore.

Huge diversion from the original topic, but what you said is very true. Of course it's not the same with all women or anything, but many do have a bit of a double standard thing.

Just re read last bit of OP, don't like boob cups. Now while I could do without the fantasy briasts in my fantasy games, the average woman is markedly different from the average man. What do they do in Thamriel, you've got briasts, it's child rearing or pint pulling for you, ah, you're flat chested, off to battle mage school, you'll be right t home in a man's armour.

I don't really mind. Designs change over the games, give us the opportunity to yak for hours on end whether the DB armour was better in Morrowind or Oblivion. I agree though that the samurai feel of the orcish armour was good.

200 years. Various influences had the time to change, so that's not so jarring, you know. It would be bothersome if they started to design an Akaviri claymore, yes, but for the rest of Nirn...

As for female armours, I do hope they're generally a bit more serious than that bandit outfit. I mean, I was the first to complain that the clothes in Morrowind looked like sacks on women : but clothes is clothes, armour is armour. On one of them, cleavage looks good, on the other, it's just plain silly - as is in general over-feminized looks for armours. We're here to fight. Don't make my char look like she could ask the dragon to pause while she fixes her lipstick.

Okay, I've been trying to keep things bottled up this whole thread but I don't know how long I can pull it off... *takes a deep breath* Here we go, and I hope things keep relatively civil



You simply can't equate the two kinds of objectification like that, because, when men are objectified, it's relatively easy for them to leave that behind if they wish and find places and situations where they aren't... women often don't have that luxury - it is far, far too common that objectification is all that women get in a work at all. Video gaming is one area where that is particularly the case, it seems. Until then, I'm going to push for things where women can be shown as normal people doing things normally (like wearing armour that actually works as armour), and while I'm not sure Skyrim will turn out that way I do still hold some hope for that.

And as for that last bit... you might want to be careful about blaming them for being wary of men noticing that sort of thing, since often for them letting men run too freely results in them being villified even if they did nothing at all. Sometimes this might result in slight overreaction (though it might be less of one than you realise), but that's because the consequences can be just that dire for them if they don't stand up to it...

briast cups on metal armour is silly and looks awful, historically metal armour does not have boob cups http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc

Romans did make shapely armour for the Colosseum but that was for entertainment and not practical use.

Armour is made to cover and protect its user from glancing blows, not bring out the wearers natural curves

But then I'd like more realistic looking people overall rather than a world filled with attractive models by 21st centenary standards

Civility isn't something you need to concern yourself with when discussing anything with me. I don't become angered by people having different opinions or perspectives than I do. And as I said, I do respect your opinion.



Well, I both agree and disagree. In degree, frequency, and severity, they are not equitable at all, you're absolutely correct. Especially in the work place, because - unfortunately - things are still far from equal there. But I'm talking about in a fictional settings. Objectification of men - often in ways that blatantly cater to women - does happen, and we don't like it any more than you do. (Especially if we aren't the ripped, Conan-esque guys we see you often drooling over - which many of you do.) I don't agree that it's easier for men than women to escape from that. Every movie or videogame I've ever seen practically portrays men this way. If you do see a shirtless guy that isn't in shape, it's generally for comedy purposes (just like women on the larger side are often used to comedy effect, sadly.) This literally doesn't even occur to most women I discuss this with. They're like, "Oh, I never even thought of it that way." But at the same time, I have no problem with women finding men attractive or objectifying them to a degree, because that's normal human thought and behavior (again, to a degree.) People are attracted to who and what they're attracted to.

So as I said, I both agree and disagree.



This, again, is a fictional setting, and this is where it isn't as easy as you think it is for men to escape from objectification. Men as just as objectified in videogames as women are in my opinion. In fact, so far at least, Skyrim is proving that point. Musclebound cavemen in loincloths.



Which is a perfectly admirable position to take. But while you're at it, I humbly suggest you also push for men to come in more shapes and sizes than they do currently.



I don't blame them for being wary, and certainly not for standing up to it. And for the record, I have never ogled a woman, or even pvssyd one up believe it or not. I'm just saying that women do what it is they're standing up to all the time, too. Which they do. It's either wrong all the time, or it's acceptable. Otherwise it is just what I said; a double standard.

In my opinion, the ideal solution would be to take nuance, context, and intent into consideration rather than summarily judging either six for what is in most cases normal human behavior. (I'm not talking about blatant sixism or harassment, which is never acceptable imo.)

I can see what you're saying, but I think the thing is choice - if all female armour options are skimpy, cleavage enhancing, nonrealistic, nonprotective versions of the male armour, which looks a lot more sturdy and non(or a?)sixual, then I can see the problem. Personally, I don't think that will be the case. I said in another post, many people will probably RP a barechested Conan warrior - which is cool - but it would svck if the female characters could never wear anything more protective than a chainmail bustier
As for the whole "woman objectifying men", you're making a lot of generalisations - as is the same for the other way round, but in terms of media representation (esp. in videogames), the objectification of women is a lot more prevalent. I don't think every man objectifies women (not by any stretch of the imagination), but when it comes to videogame representations, you don't have to look to far to see a pattern (fighting games like DoA sprung to mind lol).
In short, as long as every armour set doesn't look ridiculous and completely draw me out of a game where I'm RPing a warrior battling against epic foes and the brutal elements of the Nordic environment, it should all be cool :thumbsup:

It seems like the OPs complaint wasn't really so much the lack of asian influences in Armour Styles, as it was the general feeling of "discontinuity" in the armor styles...
Though, I realize that's not exactly what he said.

I can sympathize with the view, though. We saw asian influences in the Orcish armour during Morrowind, and some completely un-human and foreign lookin armour from both the Different dunmer-styles ( bonemold, indoril, etc ) and from Daedric Armour.
And I'd have to agree that the description of the Altmer, and the image from the manual ( Right above the "Altmer" entry ) does show a guy holding a katana, wearing a robe and looking generally like a very tall weaboo.

It's a fair complaint, is all I would say. I wouldn't want Beth to go all final-fantasy on us, but having some sort of continuity in the imaginary cultures, and the items that come out of them is to be expected.
Oblivion was heavily "Medieval Europe" / LOTR - inspired, and that seemed weird when that wasn't at all the image you had of the Imperials from Morrowind (where the imperial legion were very Antique Roman-esque) - but then that was more or less the way the imperials were portrayed in Daggerfall.
Anyway, I'm sure Skyrim will be a beautiful and unique flower and get everything right, I just hope the Nords aren't all "Thirsk Mead-hall"-stereotype-vikings.

Oh, I absolutely agree that women should have more OPTIONS than just these armors. Absolutely. I would be just as angry if I thought the only option I had was to walk around shirtless in the game lol. So you are correct, it is an issue of choice. There should be a choice. And if there isn't, I'm going to be upset because I often roleplay female characters who wouldn't want to look like that either.

But I still disagree that men are objectified less in entertainment media - including videogames - than women. Male characters in videogames are just as stereotyped, anatomically idealized, and objectified as female characters are. And even more so in other visual media like movies. And I don't feel saying that women also objectify men is generalizing. Genralizing would be to say, "All women objectify men." I never said that. I said "Women objectify men." And they do. And so does practically every visual entertainment medium. That's just my opinion.