There are a lot of plants and animals in the Shivering Isle that don't appear to be Deadra.So how did they get there? If Sheogorath didn't spawn them (and he shouldn't be able too), then he must have imported them from Mundus. Since they are quite different from anything seen on Tamriel, they must be either taken a very long time ago from Tamriel and evolved differently, or were taken from other continents of Nirn. Maybe even other planets. (I'm not saying its aliens,but...)


Do relatively normal flora and fauna in Oblivion seem weird to anyone else? Thoughts? Theories? Mad ramblings?

Perhaps he did take them from Mundus but they adapted to life in "The Isles" and evolved in such a way that reflects Sheogorath's nature?


*Edit* Addendum: Also, it's pretty obvious that the Golden Saints and Mazken are capable of forging weapons and armor, so what is the nature of these items? Are they simply forged from unknown materials found in the Shivering Isles or could they be considered a class of Daedric Weapons and Armor?

If they are indeed Mortal creatures, they would adapt to the enivorment and not the will of Sheogorath. Although since the Isles themselves are subject to Sheogorath, perhaps he can indirectly mold them to his liking.

In The Isles, perhaps even the plants and animals can go mad and reflect this in their outward appearance?

They aren't really any "crazier" than tamrielic creatures, just different.

There are creatures and beings in various places in Oblivion that aren't from Mundus or Daedra.

As Dyus says in the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/interview-two-denizens-shivering-isles:

Before that Haskill had this to say:

Implying that Oblivion is a lot more complicated than it appears.

Yeah, it's befuddling. I've always been curious about Gnarls (I'm guessing they were loosely based on Ents from Tolkiens works) and the swamp tentacles (they never move but yet they must have some purpose for being tentacles right?

So in other words, they just exist there because they do. They weren't created by the Daedra lords, but they've always been there. Am I understanding that right?

I figured the gnarls are an off shoot of spriggans. And since spriggans aren't animals but...uh...things(aedra?), maybe they can be mutated more easily.

Hmm, could be. Like Tree spirits or something.



Off subject, I know, but Spriggans have had an interesting evolution over the course of the series:
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Spriggan_(Daggerfall)
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Spriggan_(Bloodmoon)
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Spriggan_(Oblivion)
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Spriggan_(Skyrim)


They start off being rather beastly, then in Morrowind(Bloodmoon) they take on a feminine, almost human like form with it turning just a bit more tree like in Oblivion. The ones from Skyrim remind me of an Antronach. They seem to have a form similar to a Flame Antronach but with a Forest/tree theme rather than flame and rock.

They've been getting cuter.


And aedric antronachs seems like a good description of them.

They'd have to be et'ada then. And the grummites don't look like primordial spirits to me.

uhm wait, isn't sheogorath a daedra himself, or, uhm, some kind of meta daedra rather?

and the shiv isles kind of his daedric plane, or meta-daedric etc... ?

(read they were what came into existence when magic was taken out of mundus in the process of lorkhan being, uhm, dis-bemembered? materialized into pieces? whatever you wanna call that ,

so he's easily as good as any down the mill daedra dude if you ask me , the meta-daedric prince of wack, praise his name, and the critters likely exist because uncle sheo accidentially snorted them out of when he was delusional from too much cheese

What's a meta-deadra?

And if they were made by Sheogorath, then they would be deadra. As in, made of Oblivion matter (creatia i think its called). If they are made of the same matter as Bears or Trolls, then they must be from outside Oblivion, like all the people living in New Sheoth.

Where did the Shivering Isles come from? The answer to the non-Mundus, non-Daedra inhabitants will likely be one and the same.

The Shivering Isles like all deadric planes are made by their master. But as the human residents show, you don't have to be deadric to live there.

(http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lorkhan) Sheogorath is said to have been created when Lorkhan's divine spark was removed from the world.

(...)

Sheogorath is the http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedric_Princes of Madness,^{http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-TBOD-2} Fourth Corner of the http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:House_of_Troubles,^{http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-MWTholer-3} Lord of the Never-There, and Sovereign of http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Shivering_Isles.^{http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-DD-4http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#intnote_nb1} His motives are said to be unknowable.^{http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-TBOD-2} He is sometimes referred to as the Mad Star, the Mad Lord, the Mad One, and the Mad God among other things.^{http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-TPP-5http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-IOA-6http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-MWSinnammu-7} His realm, best known as the Shivering Isles,^{http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-Shivering-8} has also been called the Madhouse. It's believed that those who go there lose their sanity forever.^{http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-TDOO-9http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#intnote_nb2} Of course, only the Mad God himself may decide who has the privilege to enter.^{http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-GTNS-10} The http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Golden_Saint, or Aureals, and http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dark_Seducer, or Mazken, are his servants.^{http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-SAS-11} The Mad God typically manifests on http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nirn as a seemingly harmless, well-dressed man often carrying a cane, a guise so prevalent it has actually been coined "Gentleman With a Cane".^{http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-MOS-12} Worship of Sheogorath is widespread in http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tamriel, but historically, he has been especially revered in http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Morrowind and http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Elsweyr.^{http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sheogorath#cite_note-VOF-13}

sheogorath is the funk that has been taken out of the world when it turned matter.

sheogorath IS lorkhan's divine spark.

he's not an aspect of mundus.

he's an aspect of Lorkhan, the one aspect that was incompatible with everything mundus.

he's mundus' antithesis, and so are the shiv isles. the shiv isles ARE sheo, or sheo IS the shiv isles. isles the exterior, the person the interior aspects, constantly reforming eachother. hence, the isles, and all they got, are not "of mundus" or anything. they're basically what sheo feels like. and together, they're just the aspect of lorkhan that had no place in mundus, not below it in a hierarchy, but besides. mundus + shiv islses/sheo = lorkhan.

edit: oh, and did i say: hail sheo!

edit2:

that's just the point, shiv isles are NOT a daedric plane. these, in their weird ways, well DO belong to mundus. shiv isles do not. (see above)

Where do you get this? Sheogarath was made a from a cursed Jyggalag.

jyaggalag? the daedric office clerk? the friggin' prince of order? he's sheo's very ANTAGONIST!!

and he so NOT made sheo, quite opposite, he's constantly trying to invade his realm, to little to no avail.

(and what's "a jyggalag" anyway, there's http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Shivering:Jyggalag?)

... Dude, Jyggalag is the alternate form of Shivering-Isles expansion era Sheogorath. The Daedric Princes feared Jyggalag's power, so they cursed him with madness, turing him into Sheogorath 99.9% of the time. The only time Jyggalag is allowed to go back to being himself is at the end of every 1,000 years or so, which is when the Shivering Isles expansion take place. Jyggalag has just enough time to revert the Shivering Isles back to his preference before becoming Sheogorath again.

This all changed during the Shivering Isles expansion. Sheogorath decided to end the invasions once and for all by causing a mortal (the Champion of Cyrodiil) to hold the badges of office and essentially become a stand-in for Sheogorath when Jyggalag comes in. Essentially, Sheogorath had a mortal mantle his insanse self, and because of how mantling works, this caused the "Sheogorath" identity to become fully seperated from the Jyggalag identiy, breaking the curse the Daedric Princes had inflicted on him. So, now the Champion of Cyrodiil IS the Daedric Prince of Madness, and therefore Jyggalag cannot revert to that identity anymore.

It's all explained in Shivering Isles. As in, you can't complete the main quest there without being told all this.

As a heavy TES Lore reader, I have to disagree with the whole Sheo-Lorkhan things you stated above.

Two Citizens of Shivering Isles also scoffed what the mer think about the mad god. Lorkhan =/= Sheo.


While yes, there is extreme similarity. Sheo is still Sheo. A mere coincidental mirror, a common song in the Aurbis since duality is a literal thing.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1584486-the-fiercest-tes-enemies/?p=24957840 I did of the creatures in the Shivering Isles just a little while back.

Where did they come from? I dunno. But given that realms of the daedra are very much the daedra themselves, I liken them to parasites.

We generally think of all mortal life on Nirn as descendant of the Et'Ada, so maybe these mortal lifeforms are the descendants of Et'Ada who succeeded in escaping Nirn but failed to reach Aetheirus. And so they would coalesce around the warm bodies of the most powerful daedra.

In the game their weapons and armour are classified as Daedric, so they're definitely daedric. Each race of Lesser Daedra probably just has its own way of working the Daedric material that reflects their race. Like jagged red and black to symbolise the Dremora, clean and golden for the Golden Saints, crystalline for the Knights of Order (which aren't really Daedra, I know, but are probably made up of the same Creatia that Daedra are made from) and so on and so forth.

oh.

oooooh.....

now THAT'S depressing... sheo IS jyggalag?

guess i gotta take a long walk down dementia lane now...

...or wait.

sheo won after all.

*shuffling over to mania* )

...and what's that with sheo being what came into existence when the divine spark was taken out of mundus then?

man, it's been 3 ages and a day since i played that...

skyrim and THREE fallouts in between...

...and back in oblivion times, i hardly read back any lore at all, i did read ingame books, but for people with bad memory for data types like names, it's utterly impossible to get anything like a complete picture from what books you'll read over a game. so what i got from lore for anything before skyrim, is widely dependent on at which occasion i happened across ingame books, as well as a whole bunch of, uhm, cerebral parameters

where i did start reading up lore was when i started modding - and i usually end up spending hours on the wiki following some wtf???-links instead of just researching what i wanted to know for my mod, but still - get the complete picture? don't.

...liked my sheo version better anyway.