All this time and I did not think to question where it might be located until Dominick came up with this idea in the Provincial library that: 'the Dreamsleeve is in Aetherius ...'

... and then he came up with an even more interesting question: "Why would the D/Aedra want to get to Aetherius?"

Anyone want to share any ideas or links that answer these questions?

The Daedra want to get into Aethrius? Source?

I..don't believe that at all. I'd also like to see a source.

Indeed, this all sounds rather interesting.

I don't think he's saying that the daedra want to go to the dreamsleeve, he's asking why, if the dreamsleeve is in aetherius would they want to go there. From what I know, the Daedra don't like to go to whereever it is they go when they get killed and the aedra are in aetherius anyway so the question seems a little off. I don't think the dreamsleeve has a location.

No...the aedra are still mundus, it's the mang-ge that are in the aetithrus; those spirits who never participated in creation, want nothing to do with it, and refuse to reside in Oblivion and make worlds of themselves to toy around in (or something of that sort). Meridia was once a mang-ge (or however you spell it), but because she violated the one rule about not interacting with those outside, she was cast down and thus became a daedra, despite being the daughter of Magnus.

Lol - never read about the Mang-ge Hellmouth - is that from Redguard?

I had understood that the mer belief was that the Great spirits who became Gods/Daedra were tricked into entering the Grey Maybe and that is why they made war on Lorkhan - I believed that they came from Aetherius / the Void. Where else?

Given that you talk of the Mang-ge being in Aetherius = never participated in creation, that surely shows where they ALL came from?

And I have also read on this forum that the mer, believing themselves to be descendants of the Aedra/Daedra wish to return whence the Aedra/Daedra came - presumably Aetherius/the Void.

As for where the Dreamsleve is? Does the lack of a known location for the Dreamsleve indicate that there is no actual location or simply that we do not know the location (yet)?

edit: unless someone has a link that shows Aetherius and The Void are different places? To me Aetherius appeared to be the positive manifestation/aspect of that place and The Void the negative aspect ... ofc it may be they are entirely separate places/locations and that Aetherius is within the confines of The Grey Maybe and the Voud surrounds it. In which case I have to wonder about the Nang-ge ... given they would actually be within the envelope.

However Doninick's idea seems to me to relate to the nature of the Daedra - basically they have accrued a lot more power to themselves and invested in their creations far more of themselves than the Aedra ... so would they actually want to leave or otherwise return whence they came and to what they were before?

It's funny, just the other day I was considering making a thread regarding the location of the Dreamsleeve; there's so little we know about it.

The dreamsleeve is on the internet. It's like MySpace for Imperial clerks.

There is no literal location or form for the dreamsleeve, trying to find it would be akin to trying to find a thought in your mind - it is the mind/soul of the world, its ethereal. Notice that when Jaciel was trapped in the dreamsleeve her body didn't actually go anywhere.

And when aforementioned Imperial clerks make transmissions through the dreamsleeve, they're "just" meditating.

Being traqed in the Dreamsleve isn't such a bad fate. At least no one can forget you, where everybody knows your name. No one could say they weren't glad you came.

The Dreamsleeve is interesting to me because everyone goes to the same place. But from what I can gather, it's basically a utopia and then your soul gets recycles. Is there any info on whether a really wicked and evil person would experience some sort of "hell" before they are born again?

The daedra fear it, because it is Hell to them, but they aren't real persons, so no. Its very dependant on your personal baggage.

I disagree that it would be a wholly pleasant place..having your soul "bleached" and your memories erased sounds painful. I imagine a darker, more hellish version of the dreamsleeve, like that room in Beetlejuice with the lost souls in torment. Maybe I think that way because these whole heavenly, perfect realms always sound dreadfully boring to me.

Seems more like Alzheimer's or dementia - you don't even realize that you've forgotten who you are/are losing your memories. Ignorance is bliss?

Curiously, the spirits I've seen all appear to recall their lives quite well, it's what happens afterwards that starts to get fuzzy. Perhaps the loss of memories comes the fact that when a spirit is reborn, it is placed in a vessel which is initially incapable of retaining the knowledge that the spirit has gathered. Kind of like deflating a balloon to fit it through a small opening. Whereas Daedra are presumably reborn in full-sized, functional bodies.

hoo - maybes those spirits were the most cogent, mentally strong and retained memories because they had been summoned back as themselves?

re location - people talk of the spirit realm - that indicates a place. perhaps it is co-terminus with the more solid mundus or whatever?

Perhaps. In Knights of the Nine, the vision with Pelinal Whitestrake took place at what appears to be high above the Imperial City in the clouds. Furthermore, the Prophet states that the Blessing of Talos will allow you to travel to the spirit realm to fight Umaril, which appears to be the same place as the vision.

Well if you're talking to them then they're not in the dreamsleeve anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck#Morphology

Good point ^^



There it is again then - what about a co-terminus dimension that has a 'spiritual factor' but not a 'physical factor'? That might make that 'place in the clouds' a spiritually perceived location rather than visually or tangibly perceived. and that presumes that either spiritual perception can be interpreted by the mind directly or that the mind creates its own construction from the spiritual prompting.

So maybe the minds of the Daedra cannot interpret what they perceive in the Dreamsleeve because they cannot create? And they hate being sensorily blind?

I figured the "spirit realm" was the Waters of Oblivion. Umaril was sort-of a lesser daedra, from what I gather - his 'soul' or whatever gets sent to the Waters of Oblivion, instead of the Dreamsleeve.

As for Pelinal - not all souls go to the Dreamsleeve.... I remember reading that sometimes the soul will go whatever Daedric Prince was worshipped in life? Not sure... anyway, Pel was no mere mortal, I don't doubt that his soul/whatever was hanging out somewhere instead of going through the trash compactor (dreamsleeve).

I could be wrong, though - I never really looked at the KotN lore deeply, mostly 'cause I was annoyed at how the plot catered to noble characters exclusively.

The spirit realm is not a location, but rather as 1999 noted a spiritually percieved environment. If somebody had levitated high above the IC while you were fighting Umaril they would have noticed nothing out of the ordinary due to them not 'being in the spirit realm', ie, not being dead theirself - afterall, you had to die to get there...

An individual cannot travel there physically since you're not really going anywhere, only in spirit or in mind. Notice that your body stayed in Garlas Malatar when you were fighting Umaril the second time, it was your spirit that entered the realm, the realm of spirits. Umaril's destination wasn't some "spirit realm" whose location is in the sky above Cyrodiil, his destination was Oblivion, you cut him off before he could get there, your spirit intercepted his spirit in the sky over Cyrodiil. The fight could have hypothetically taken place anywhere between Mundus & Oblivion. At that point you were pure spirit, which is the same thing as being in the spirit realm.

The spirit of Umaril should not be confused with a ghost. A ghost is ectoplasm animated by a soul, Umaril was just the soul. You can see a ghost, you can't see the soul, you can capture it, but you can't interact with it unless you are in the spirit realm and you can't be in the spirit realm unless you are a spirit.

One other thing we can learn from the encounter with Umaril is that a body can only kill another body, but that won't directly kill the soul (afterall it can still be trapped). However, a spirit can kill a spirit, utterly annihilating its existence (which sorta makes me wonder if a shehai could manage it).

Edited for clarification.

Uh, I don't think the Aedra are in Aetherius. There are 8 planets in the Mundus that are the representations of the Aedra. I don't think they're physically anywhere since they're just concepts who have the ability to manifest into avatars in the mortal realm. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Maybe it's a good thing that the old sword singers are mostly dead.