I really loved the SI main quest, and I love when any ES quest blows your mind.

The way I see it, Jyg was cursed to have a split personality-- one that worked completely contrary to his base desires and function. Sort of like a Jeckyll and Hyde thing, where you'd spend hours chatting up saucy Victorian women during the day, only to find that your other self was strangling your dates at night. Very frustrating. Of course, the other personality (Sheogorath) was a real personality, so he wasn't too keen on having his other self wipe out his realm every era. Just as Jyg must've been upset every time he woke up and found weird trees and madmen all over the place.

When the Greymarch began the land was in transition (and by extension the Prince(s)), being neither Sheo nor Jygg but a bit of both. When you reforged the staff from the remaining madness in the Isles, you became that madness, thereby preserving the mad persona of Sheogorath within yourself and freeing Jyg from his curse.

As to why Jyg didn't continue the Greymarch and wipe out the Isles... Best I can figure is that he either didn't want to destroy something that had once been part of himself, or maybe he recognized that this former mortal had just done him an enormous favor. Mankar Cameran was not a Daedric Prince, but he had his own Realm. Perhaps if I hadn't smashed his head with a hammer there'd be a shrine to him in TES V...

Exactly Oblivion left some but very little... and somewhat predictable questions, SI is grand in this regard.


Aye, must've been enfuriating, guess that's why he was so Mehrunes about it


I think you might've just hit it. This explanation makes loads of sense, altho there's still the question of power distribution (was the leftover madness OF Jyggy? If so, did he become weaker now? If not, was it of the people? etc.)


This one is simple, you didn't break the curse by being Madgod at the time, basically he broke it by realizing that going to the throne, other princes would make him Sheogy again, so he gave up, and you showed it to him, so to speak, by taking madness on yourself.

Camoran's Paradise wasn't a Daedric realm. At least, not in the traditional sense. It seems to be a dimension constructed by Mehrunes Dagon for Camoran via the Mysterium Xarxes. Which according to Martin, *is* Paradise.

Exactly, it's probably small, remote part of Mehrunes' plane

I agree. Mankar was borrowing power just as you (might be) borrowing some of Jyg/Sheo's. But left to develop the realm as you see fit, who knows what will become of your Shivering Isles or Mankar's Paradise?

Well not really, as you are left in charge and directly connected to an entire Daedric realm. Camoran could only dream of that kind of power.

Symbols are everything. Sheogorath says that for all intents and purposes you will be him but that does not make you fully him. For all intents and purposes a champion can be their master but that does not make them their master in body and soul. Basically what I am saying is that you are a champion of a deadric prince, that said prince has given you a small portion of his power but that does not make you a deadric prince yourself.

You said it yourself - symbols are everything. You have symbol of Sheogorath. You are connected to the Isles. Thus you are Daedric Prince.

You are not given a small portion of his power. You're given everything. His power, his realm, his followers, his name, his collection of rare common cheeses..
He is you and you are him. The realm is you and you are the realm. How are you anything but a Daedra Prince?

I think that may be wishful thinking because Sheo specifically tells you that you will not be a daedric prince....but that you will have power, his power

You'll be Sheogorath and Sheogorath is a Daedric Prince, so you are a Daedric Prince.

Sheogorath is not one of the et'Ada - he is an 'artificial' construct designed to keep Jyggalag in check, a sort of 'persona-prison'. The end of SI saw et'Ada Jyggalag released from his prison, and replaced by the mortal PC. I find it entirely possible that this transition from et'Ada to mortal changed the nature of Sheogorath. By this definition, Sheogorath was never a Daedra - Jyggalag was, and his essence dictated the nature of the construct, Sheogorath.

The question arises: how do you define Daedra?

Jyg was transformed into Sheogorath by the curse of the other Daedra, being cursed doesn't change what you are. A cursed man is still a man, so a cursed Daedra is still a Daedra. So locking Jyg away in his own mind, doesn't change that it's still the mind of a Daedric Prince no matter who's in control of it.



Arbitrarily.

Fair enough. Jyggalag is a Daedra. I was talking about Sheogorath, the mantle of madness which is now worn on mortal shoulders.


Cute. But there have to be at least a few basic prerequisites to base our conception on.

You could draw rules from the existing Princes but there's always a few that fall out or some that are to broad.

I'll give it a shot, a Daedra is any Padomay aligned et'Ada who rules a realm of their own made from their own.

Sounds as if you have to include the spirit's part in Creation there, too. An important part of the Daedric nature is lack of connection to Mundus.

Creating a realm for your own from your own already includes that.

"Now when the Daedra Lords heard Shezarr, they mocked him, and the other Aedra. 'Cut parts of ourselves off? And lose them? Forever? That's stupid! You'll be sorry! We are far smarter than you, for we will create a new world out of ourselves, but we will not cut it off, or let it mock us, but we will make this world within ourselves, forever ours, and under our complete control.' -http://til.gamingsource.net/mwbooks/monomyth.shtml#Cyrodiilic

A good question is perhaps "what is Sheogorath" ?

If you want to say "cursed Jyggalag" think again. I don't know any schizophrenic specifically but I know that both personalities want to live. The question is, what is Sheogorath, as the schizophrenic personality. Because, "as" that, he's NOT Jyggylag, not on spiritual/cognitive level. (and with deadra we can also say that not on physical either)

Perhaps there's more to the curse than just a curse. To curse a Deadric prince as such requires a lot of power. It's clear that this power was used, and didn't "return" because the PC took it. We just might have a new kind of demi-god here, who simply has the leftover curse-power of all other Deadra in him, and additionally, I'd say also the madness of SI itself.

(sorry for the "late" reply)

Ok, I think I got what you mean, but one thing remains:

if what you say is true, then why would you/sheo bother with the whole new approach thing? I mean, what you described is a normal Graymarch cycle. If you didn't stop him, he would be a Sheo by now again anyhow. The only possible "gain" from it would be that the realm remains. But then.. why would Jyg want to save the realm of his hated self?

And another thing, why does he say at the end (that is.. if your theory is right, why do YOU say) that he's free to roam oblivion once more?

Doesn't click.

Well, if jyg attempts to destroy the realm, he ends up getting maddened agian. He needs someone to be madness. I also think the free to roam oblivion thing may have been refering to his newfound freedom from madness.

Jyg is to Sheo as Trinimac is to Malcath as Akatosh is to Sezarr as Order is to Choas et etc blah blah blah

It is likely the curse isn't what you all think. The curse was free will. The other Et'ada cursed Jyg by creating Mundus, thus creating free will.

Remember, Sheo was "born" when Shezarr's heart was removed. Al lthat freedom had to go somewhere. Order was shattered after free will was created and freedom's last host (Lorkhan) died. Thus, Jyg was without a sphere proper and freedom was without an Et'ada host. The fit was perfect.

While it's admittedly a bit weird that a Deadra would voluntarily wander in Oblivion, given what the lesser Daedra say about it (though it could be different for Daedric Princes, I guess), I assumed this was because he doesn't have many other places to go. Without a Realm, what else is he supposed to do?

I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength here. First we must accept that we're talking about a theoretical situation in which YOU are Sheogorath are Jyggalag.

So Sheogorath = Jyggalag = You (once, and always)

This means you fought yourself, and that the whole cycle restarted, with the only exception this time, that the realm wasn't trashed. What I asked was IF this is considered true (which would mean that Dyus's words make sense and a few other meaningful things), why would you tell yourself you're going to roam oblivon and why would you bother with the whole thing if you hate the realm? (eg: if you didn't bother with the whole champion thing, then the restart would happen anyhow)

There's many you's however so perhaps the you with you in control had sympathy for the him.

Perhaps an explanation as to why the PC lacks --all-- of the abilities of a true Daedra Lord is a bit more simple than everyone's making it out to be.

Perhaps, indeed, the PC --does-- in sooth become Sheogorath. Let's say that the persona, the power behind the Daedric Prince, all this, merge with the PC's persona, as is suggested in the lore. Wouldn't it make some kind of sense that, until the PC lets go of their previous self and --embraces-- Madness, that their powers would be somewhat...limited? Indeed, while the PC holds onto his humanity (Or elfosity, or what-have-you), bound to his mortal form, it might make a kind of sense that he ISN'T bound to the Shivering Isles. Maybe it's all just contained inside of him, waiting for his death, or his loss of sanity, or his simple loss of will to resist it and maintain his sense of "self" that's preventing him from reverting to a more recognizeable Sheogorath--one we'll likely see in the next game to be the same as always, yet not.

But it could, until then, be contained by ego and self, a connection to the Mundus.

Jyggalag walks in the cloak of the Madgod. Hence he is named, and has been since/before the Old Bones. You are the "Madgod". You are not "Sheogorath".

As to the staff, the answer should be obvious: Sheogorath owns madness, and the staff has madness in it, so its power is the madness.