Ok, goodbye...
:wave:

In a somewhat similiar situation to Skyrim --

DiabloIII actually did away with attribute choices on level up, and reduced/simplified the attributes. The game actually has more customization than DiabloII.

Weird right? No, its called reading what they added and not just reading what they removed. Seems like companies are removing arbitrary number upgrades for meaningful game-play changing upgrades. (cough perks vs attributes)

What overreactions the Skyrim General Discussion forum has seen.

Have you not listened to anything that Todd Howard has said in his interviews and podcasts? There's going to be a huge emphasis on being the type of character you want to be, expanding on what was in the last games. Plus, it's an Elder Scrolls game. I've never been able to roleplay so well in any other game series.

But you know, you've already decided that you don't like this game, so go ahead. Be a huge naysayer 8 months before the game is even released. Ignore information to the contrary and just complain about everything. That's all I've seen you do on this forum anyway.

This particular forumer has been negative in every post I've seen (bet s/he will still buy the game though).

I agree. Every person that took the time to sign up on these forums for elder scrolls will buy this game. I would bet on that as well.

theres worse. go visit blizzard forums lol.

So you're essentially using TES games are a platform for LARPing (except it wouldn't be "live-action", just "action" or "electronic-action")? Cool. Now if people only realized that that's really what RPGs are meant to be, maybe we'd stop running into these threads complaining about things like stats, gameplay, level design, art style, character balance, and all that other stuff.

Oh wait. I like that stuff. And I don't like having to use my imagination to make an inadequate game seem better than it is. I believe that the game should provide me enjoyment without making me imagineer it for myself. My point is not that I agree with OP (I don't), it's that RPG video games are video games, not sandbox platforms for people to "roleplay" on. Open world RPGs can be used that way, but so can any open world game (after all, you don't care about stats and numbers, right?).

Good lord, if you're going to tell the OP he (she?) is wrong, then do so, but please use some other excuse than "this is my definition of an RPG, so your thoughts are invalid". Give examples for why your definition is correct, at least. Some sort of backing other than "what I find fun is this", because I find Duke 3D fun, but I know that Skyrim isn't Duke 3D.

perks > attributes. there you go, your RPG is back.

I play RPG's to role play somebody else ~that's what RPG's are for. I'm not interested in what I would do, I'm interested in what the character would do.

But the numbers determine if he gets beat up trying to do it, or if he has even the slightest inkling about the task that they need help with.

A lot of RPG's assign you a character; not all, but enough. RPG's are about roleplaying a character. You decide what they would do...(based on their ethics and personality). That means that if YOU want to break into an NPC's house and loot it's contents, but they would never do that... Then you don't. That's something I loved about Party based RPG's, back then (when they existed), you could run several characters including one that would like to rob the house. When I played Baldur's Gate, I'd have Imoen rob the Inn, not Khalid.


Track record. Examine the games from Arena up to Oblivion... What happened?

I didn't say it was gone in the first place. It has character development and it has downtime. It's an RPG in my my book, just like ME2, or Ultima VII, or FO3.

okay so like

everyone's always like I'M NOT BUYING INTO THE HYPE OR READING THE MAGAZINES OR ANYTHING

but then they buy into sensationalist [censored] posted here and on other forums like OH THEY'RE REMOVING LIKE ALL THE SKILLS AND STUFF and a bunch of people just read THIS WAS CHANGED and go HOW DARE THEY and don't bother to read the forty posts EXPLAINING WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

so we get a thousand of these threads and nobody actually says anything new and then people go ANOTHER ONE OF THESE and the people who make the threads go WHY AM I BEING IGNORED and i just want to clarify that you're being ignored because you're ignoring everybody else.

Exactly, and just because you don't need a long list of numbers and dicerolls and a dungeonmaster doesn't mean that you are limited in role playing. In fact, I think that gives you more freedom. (I am agreeing with you on this point.)

True, the game does get more 'action'y when everything is can be controlled by the player instead of stats and chance. But there is a reason things change. If this was an RPG like FF for the NES then you would still need dice rolls because battles are 2d and turn based. But if you can navigate the world and respond to real-time actions with real-time responses it simply becomes more realistic. There is nothing realistic about a diceroll unless you are playing a game that requires real dice.

The true beauty of an RPG is right here. Remember when you were seven? And you would spend all day playing outside or in your room or with friends? You weren't in the place where your body physically was, were you? No, you were in space, or the wild west or in pokemon or something else you played when you were a kid. The game had it's own basic rule set like people don't just die because you decide because as no kid want's to play that with you. But from there you put whatever limitations you wanted to make your character fun to play.

I'll tell you now, they didn't get worse. they didn't get better either, as both things are subjective. They merely changed, whether they got better or worse is entirely dependent on opinion and anyone who tries to claim it as fact needs to relearn the definition of the word.

I...think we're agreeing...right? I mean, its the character's choice if they sneek in and try to take the staff, the numbers only take over in the exicution. A thief is still a thief, be them very bad or very good at what they do. The numbers are just there to show if one is good or bad at something, and the progression from them being bad to being good.

Again...I think we're agreeing. I'm just bad at putting my thoughts into words. Sorry. We pick a role for our character, and then we play by those self inflicted rules.

What?!

Ah.. I agree somewhat with you (the OP) on this with respect to combat, but not to NPC interaction. From what I've been hearing, they've put a lot into the AI for this game. Read up on what they've said about NPC jobs, and dialog. Sounds pretty good.

As far as combat, I've always preferred turn-based, stats-based stuff to raw action and (joystick/keyboard pounding) skills. Regardless of what the others on this thread say, this is a big part of RPG's, imo.. Although this has been going downhill long before Skyrim.

I demand that every game from now until the end of time let me do that. Take that, MW2, you call breaching a door with an explosive charge shock & awe? Wait till I kick in the door and start singing "I'm a little teapot".

Shooters have never been so intense.

You choose a race. You choose what your character is good at over the course of the game. You choose what quests and/or factions to take part in. You choose what (if any) jobs your character will perform. You craft armor. You explore a world discovering things about it as you progress, including the literature and history of said world. You can affect the economy of said world's settlements and cities through your actions.

Sure sounds like you'll be playing a role to me.

Stats =/= roleplaying. Attributes =/= roleplaying.

f

This is why everyone goes into a rage, people saying things that aren't true because they don't have a view of the game at large. Getting rid of attributes is not dumb, the only attributes your really need are health, magicka and stamina. The rest of the attributes belong under certain categories such as mage, warrior or thief. Your normal customization of those "attributes" hasn't changed. They will still be just as customizable as before, you just won't be putting numbers into them. People need to stop overreacting when in reality everything that you were able to do with skills and attributes you can still do in Skyrim and more. You haven't lost anything, you are only gaining things. This goes for Oblivion also, people assumed they only lost things when in reality they gained more than the lost by a wide margin.

You can't get good at everything, the new leveling system was made to specifically stop that. In the other games you could get good at everything, Skyrim is eliminating that. So roleplaying hasn't been touched in Skyrim. Roleplaying does not equate to numbers, roleplaying is your character plays a role and you play the character, there is nothing being lost from roleplaying.....



This. This just shows you that roleplaying is actually even greater in this game than any past game.

Wait what? I thought that it was just a rumor that attributes were removed! I need a link!

It's not confirmed, people on this forum are just assuming again.

Oooooohhh. Then why the hell are people saying that! I HAD A [censored] HEART ATTACK! When did people get this idea then? The one about leveling up stamina helth or magicka???

EDIT: nevermind

Yes, but IF attributes are out, it does not render the game something other than a roleplaying game. Genre definitions are subjective and ever-changing.

Yes sir. I guess since we are upgrading health, magicka or stamina that means attributes aren't being leveled up, and they aren't in the game at all

which makes no sense at all. Attributes have always been in, and they were in both FO3 and FO:NV.

I will admit, if attributes are out it will be the first news that has upset me. Not enough to not buy, but I would still be upset.