In the infernal city vivec disappeared and the floating rock thing plummeted and basically created a tsunami. I'm asking if anyone has any suggestions on where
vivec went. If you do please post your idea.

I think he's dead.

Wearin' cement boots halfway across the ocean to Akavir, probably - provided he didn't wind up an enchanted coedpiece or pair of pants or something.

"I have to go now; my planet needs me."

And then he flew away.

Yep

So, he's alive?

Wasn't he taken by the Daedra during the invasion?

Considering after Morrowind he pretty much became his old poet-warrior self, he was quite killable.

Nah he just left because the city of Vivec lost Vivec's caring or whatnot. To put it the easy way the god Vivec doesn't like the city so then the city is destroyed .

I can't believe they would put something as lame as this in their book.

The Ministry of Truth is not high enough to attain maximum velocity before impact, and therefore isn't going fast enough to create a tsunami. It also doesn't have the size necessary to destroy the city, however it could seriously damage the temple canton. Now, if by "destroy the city" they meant "figuratively" being that by falling, it signaled the end of the power of the Tribunal and therefore left the population disillusioned, then sure, I can buy that. But if it literally crushes the city and creates a wave that wreaks havok on the island, then I think I may be done with TES games since they are resorting to Deus Ex Machina.

On topic, Vivec is dead, the Nerevarine used his soul to make a pretty useless amulet called "Not So Tough Now Vivec". When used, it harms the wearer by 1-50 and also heals the wearer by 1-50 so you've pretty much got a 50-50 chance of getting healed or hurt by it.

The Ministry of Truth didn't have to attain maximum velocity, because it was never slowed down - it was frozen at a full speed. As soon as the spell around it wore off, the big hunk of rock was immediately moving at its full velocity. Plus, the real damage was due to the Ministry of Truth causing Red Mountain to erupt.

It's fairly well known by now that the MOT was frozen at full velocity, and when Vivec left the spell wore off and it continued on it's original path at its original speed. It's not deus ex machinima eithere, because' it's been alluded to for quite some time now.

Source?

All I have found is that the temple told people that that if they stopped worshipping Vivec then it would no longer float and would finish its fall. Nothing indicated that it still retained maximum velocity.

http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml#33 Note the last line. I italicized the important part.

Lie Rock, however, used the confusion to launch his own attack on the city-god, Vivec. He was hastened by all three of the black guardians, who wanted him swiftly gone, though they meant no hostility to the lord of the middle air.

The citizenry of Vivec screamed as they saw a shooting star come down out of the sky hole like a toll-road of hell. But Vivec merely raised his hand and froze Lie Rock just above the city and then he pierced the monster with Muatra.

(The practice of piercing the Second Aperture is now forbidden.)

When Nerevar returned, he saw the frozen comet above his lord's city. He asked whether or not Vivec wanted it removed.


'I would have done so myself if I wanted, silly Hortator. I shall keep it there with its last intention intact, so that if the love of the people of this city for me ever disappear, so shall the power that holds back their destruction.'

#1. The 36 Lessons of Vivec are religious propaganda and therefore should be treated as such (i.e. the "moral" of the story is the focus, not the actual events).
#2. The story as told in the 36 Lessons of Vivec is already known to be false as Nerevar was dead before Vivec had power.

All I'm saying is that the frozen comet does not have the natural ability to retain velocity for several centuries, and therefore it would have required a constant flow of power to maintain for no real reason. Since the Ghostgate was significantly more important than a floating rock, why did Vivec choose to waste so much energy (especially once he was no longer able to make his annual trek to Red Mountain to recharge)?

It simply makes no sense.

Your first and second point bely each other: if the 36 lessons aren't an entirely accurate depiction of events, then its possible it to be true that Vivec stopped the Ministry of Truth, but false that it happened while Nerevar was still alive. (There's another issue of whether Vivec rewrote history when he tapped the Heart of Lorkhan, but I'm not going into that).




This has nothing to do with natural ability. Magic trumps natural ability.



Vivec explicitly states in the sermon I linked to why he did it. To punish the Dunmer if they ever lost faith in him.

The Nerevarine killed him, remember? :dance:

(We all have at least killed him once in the game, right?)

I didn't suggest that he didn't stop it, only that our only known source regarding the incident is propaganda which is known to be factually incorrect.

Sure, but failing an actual explanation of the mechanics of the magic (which TES almost always provides), you are assuming much when you state that the velocity was magically maintained.

So punishing the Dunmer if they lost faith in him was more important than using using his waning power to fight Dagoth Ur and reclaim his power? Vivec must have gone senile in his old age.

Why are you trying to apply logic..to a made up fantasy world?
Vivec stopped the comet. He. Stopped. It. With. Magic.
Now you want to talk logic?
Vivec is alive, and the comet smashed into Vivec City with the same velocity it had when it was stopped. That's how it is, that's pretty much accepted as canon. You can argue all you want with it and try to apply "physics and logic" to the situation, but that's pretty futile.

While the lessons are largely fake, there's certainly no denying that there IS a giant rock floating above the city, and that Vivec, being the nearest extremely powerful magical entity, is probably the reason it's floating and not falling. Considering talk of void ghosts (daedra are regarded as spirits born from the void), stars (which are holes in the Oblivion barrier from which magic pours out), and Vivec's generally unpopular status among daedra, the common theory is that the rock was hurled at the city by a daedric prince. Vivec had the power to "stop" it, but not, as he claimed, to just undo an attack from a daedric prince, and so the stone floated there and waited for his power to fade in order to resume the attack and destroy the city.

I have to apply logic since the story failed to suspend my disbelief. Had they come up with a story that wasn't terrible my disbelief would have been suspended and no logic would be applied satisfying all involved. Since this is not the case, the natural evolution of the literary process is to begin to discover the reasons as to why disbelief was not suspended and this requires a logical anolysis, fantastic setting notwithstanding.

You believe the moon is too close to the surface to cause any serious damage and you discredit the only account that gives a straightforward explanation. Obviously, your disbelief will never be suspended. It's riveted into the ground.

Think of it like this.

Magicka is influenced by the user's Intelligence and Willpower. Higher Intelligence provides more MP and therefore you have the ability to cast more powerful spells. A higher willpower affects sustainability(Magicka Regen/Fatigue). Like you mentioned earlier, maintaining the enchantment on lie rock would've been tedious, so he passed it on to the people. Love is a powerful force of will. This is part of why the loveletter focused on it so much. Vivec wasn't sustaining lie rock's enchantment, the Dunmer were.

Pretty much this. He's just being stubborn and ridiculous at this point. We've given him sources, facts, etc, and still refuses to "believe" it, so, I don't really care.

Then you're in luck because this has nothing to do with belief. The issue can be solved matter-of-factly just by reading the book, and whadya know, its in the book! Guess you believed wrong... :shrug:

Firstly, there is no dichotomy between propaganda and truth. Secondly, the 36 Sermons aren't propaganda - propaganda is information spread to large numbers in order to sway their beliefs, the Sermons are only meant for one person and with the purpose of guiding... Besides, we don't have to take the Sermons at their word; we can see the rock, we know it falls.

Also, you need to brush up on your Temple propaganda, else you'd know that that doesn't matter.

You're quite mistaken. Vivec's spell was a one time exertion of power which froze it, it was the love of the people that kept it frozen. The 'constant flow of power' didn't come from him, rather from the people as a stipulation of the spell.

As evidence that its not Vivec directly holding it up, witness that if you kill Vivec it doesn't crash, one may therefore assume that something else is at work, this something else is the love of the people... because ya' know, love's magickal...

You see, the problem here is that you start with a false assumption. You assume that propaganda is incorrect and then base all your conclusions off of that, even when those conclusions directly contradict blatant evidence to the contrary.

However the fact is that that propaganda is known to be factually correct. How is this so, well, its been proven factually correct. Read.

I've already explained to you the mechanics of it.

Again, you're simply mistaken. If something is designed to suspend your disbelief then regardless it will not hold up to logic, afterall, that was the point of suspending your disbelief. That you don't like the story and refuse that suspension is of no relevance. If you're unwilling then the point is moot.

Luckily, this all makes sense, you're just ignoring that fact because of your dislike for it. :nod:

And here you now make my point. Since the lore doesn't specifically support the result your main argument is that the result retroactively creates the lore. Ergo: Deus Ex Machina.
Game, set, and match.