Unless someone accidentally flipped the logo It's the midwestern chapter as demonstrated by this image: http://i.imgur.com/STpB3dy.jpg?1

Actually, since the SS is probably one of the few "pure strain" humans left, the presence of the Enclave might make a bit of literary sense. A contrast between the SS's experiences and their flawed interpretation of the World as it Was. I truly do not care one way or the other, but finding an Enclave safehouse would be rather fun I think.

So should a cult like the BoS. But even if Lyons and the MwBoS never existed, the WCBoS would still be going on today as it is in NV.

"I find it helpful at times like these to remind myself that our true enemy is Instinct. Instinct was our mother when we were an infant species. Instinct coddled us and kept us safe in those hardscrabble years when we hardened our sticks and cooked our first meals above a meager fire and started at the shadows that leapt upon the cavern's walls. But inseparable from Instinct is its dark twin, Superstition. Instinct is inextricably bound to unreasoning impulses, and today we clearly see its true nature. Instinct has just become aware of its irrelevance, and like a cornered beast, it will not go down without a bloody fight. Instinct would inflict a fatal injury on our species. Instinct creates its own oppressors, and bids us rise up against them. Instinct tells us that the unknown is a threat, rather than an opportunity. Instinct slyly and covertly compels us away from change and progress."

See here https://i.imgur.com/uQ58D6p.jpg

Lyons uses the same "big gear on the right" logo as the MWBoS does

Oh, then it's probably the eastern one. Would have loved to see the midwestern one though, they seem bigger a-holes and that always creates nice dynamics in faction relations. Geographically speaking I guess that would be a bit hard to pull off I guess.

Yeah that is a problem using it for indentifying which faction of BOS it is as both MWBOS and Lyons' BOS have a history of modifying the BOS symbol, but both of them also use the original layout as well.

However, if this is the Midwestern BoS we're seeing in Fallout 4, with Vertibirds and an Airship, then why the hell would the Midwestern BoS flee from Caesar's Legion? Caesar's Legion has absolutely nothing that could counter the Airship or Vertibirds. Provoking the Midwestern BoS would be suicidal for Caesar's Legion then. Which may explain why Caesar's Legion has never expanded further east than Denver, because east of that is Midwestern BoS territory.

The Enclave easily could've traded Vertibird tech for Power Armor tech with the Midwestern BoS during their time in Chicago. The Midwestern BoS has Vault 0, which has heavy manufacturing capabilities. Maybe only very high ranking Midwestern BoS members get to wear their iconic Power Armor, to where you'll only see it on their General or Dagger Squad. The Midwestern BoS also potentially have access to a unique aircraft, the Hellion, so if we see that in any footage, then it's definately the Midwestern BoS. http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Hellion

BGS's "Brotherhood", so hilariously melodramatic white paladin knights.

"Honour be with you!"

I disagree. It might be black and white if each and EVERY member had the same view as the Elder but if you spoke to a fair few people at Lyons base then you would know that some disagreed with his view but not to the point of joining the Outcasts. Elder Lyon's version of the BOS certainly was not Black or White. It did however go out of its way to help the people of the wastes. it never lost site though that IT should be the one protecting/controlling the new way of generating fresh water when that came online. In fact you could even say that their desire to protect the purifier was part of a need to 'hold' the technology. I definetly think the Enclave activity in the area made many question their lack of technology vs the Enclave.

The outcasts literallly had no way of replacing members as can be seen. Their multiperson patrols include a Robot as they dont have the numbers to support a full squad. There is no way they could take and hold the Pentagon/CItadel. I think Lyons group still is the most likely myself but honestly I dont really have a clue which group of the BOS it could be.

Yeah but there's no reason that they would is there considering that there own power armour was better and they needed the aircraft for travelling from Navarro to Raven Rock. People always draw conclusions between the Enclave and the Midwest because they have slightly similar designs in helmets and it always seems like massive conjecture to me. It's just artistic licence on Bethesda's part, the same way that there have been three designs of Vertibird but with no indications that they are different designs. Also Sergeant Dornan referred to your power armour as Mark II at Navarro and Casdin does the Enclave armour given to him for the quest. They are the same armour just with different designs and Bethesda appears to be returned to the classic design in the new Fallout where-in the different "mark designations" can all be applied to the same armour.

We will find out in November unless there is some massive leak. Everything they have shown has been intentional, so really I don't think any of the "clues" can say one way or the other. If we knew any specific detail, this wouldn't even be a question.

They are still the best Brotherhood chapter that has been done. Lyon's have depth, its not just "We are the good guys" alot of iternal conflict, The Outcasts, The Pitt. He changed the mission parameters because he could actually rebuild the DC Wasteland and protect the people. Veronica even states this in New Vegas, the Brotherhood has to evolve or it won't fit in the modern society, Elder Mcnamara is stupid and says no, while Lyons actually does it.

It's quite literally that. Helping people around, eradicating mutants (orcs), saving the wasteland, being all flashy and without that one little internal conflict the faction called "Brotherhood of Steel" in Fallout 3 would be completely flat. Fantasy "Paladins of the light holy order of light" in post-apo setting. Outcasts are more BoS than BoS, but their exposure is minimal.

See:

It's a possibility that they never fully recovered from the war with the calculator, so instead of holing up in a bunker to die like the West Coast BoS, the MwBoS are packing up to go elsewhere. Like I said, the retcon of much of their material has left them in a very hazy spot.

The legion has at least artillery capability, but the fact that the NCR doesn't perform bombing runs regularly on fortification hill implies that the legion has some short/medium range anti-air weapons. This isn't fully explained, though, especially when one considers how the Boomer's could perform a bombing run over the dam - which is already very close to Fortification hill. It begs the question of why the Boomers can do a single bombing run but the NCR is seemingly incapable of that with vertibirds.

Well, we don't know for certain if Legion has been fighting MWBoS or not. It could be other WC chapters. Who knows. Also, MW is spread out(probably), so if Legion was fighting MW BoS they could be fighting more remote bunkers, founded long ago, recruited mostly with tribals and locals, who possibly no longer have any contact with main MW BoS bunkers closer to Chicago. A lot of what we know about MW BoS is pure speculation, because we don't know exactly what BGS is going to consider canon or what happened between FO Tactics and FO 3 +, which is a very long time. FO T took place chronologically between FO 1 and 2, so you looking at roughly 70 years, and a lot can happen in that time. For example, say that after destroying Calculator they blow up Vault 0 and for the most part, move back towards Chicago, leaving their tribal and local recruits to carry on the BoS in their respective regions all on their own. Which, imo, is a fairly high possibility. This would make the power center of MW BoS in the Chicago area, and the more remote BoS chapters wouldn't be as powerful as the core group.

Yeah, totally helpng people out and saving the wasteland.

>Don't bother to attack the slavers at Paradise Falls, even though they could easily beat them and rid the wasteland of that menace.
>Don't bother to wipe out the raiders at Evergreen Mills, even though they could easily beat them and rid the wasteland of that menace as well.
>Don't bother to do anything about Talon Company, until Talon Company starts taking their water, and even then only becuase of the next item on the list.
>Greatly implied by several people, from Scribe Bigsley to Officer Lepelletier, that the entire purifier thing is just one giant PR stunt, and they are giving it out for free not out of the kindness of their hearts, but as a recruitment tactic.

>They still shoot non-hositle, and non-feral, ghouls on sight.

>Lyons wasn't even giving the non-hostile ghouls of Underworld any clean water until Bigsley did an under the table deal with Griffon behind Lyon's back.

Yep, totally nice people doing everything in thier power to help ot the people of the wasteland out of the kidness of thier hearts all right.

I wouldn't consider that a whole lot of depth. Lyon's Brotherhood decided to forget about the preservation of technology to fight the Super Mutants and help Project Purity, some people didn't like it and became Outcast. Them visiting the Pitt and killing everything isn't much of an backstory either. And that's about it. Even Veronica's description of a this supposed civil war between them doesn't really fit the bill, as they never actually fought each other either. More so the Outcast moved out into some different fort and just complained about Lyon's Brotherhood all day. Not much of an internal conflict there.

The most depth I'd say we've probably seen in the Brotherhood is from either the Midwestern Brotherhood, or the Mojave chapter with their war against the NCR, Elijah, and seeing actual internal conflicts within the Brotherhood that actually debate change within the main Brotherhood of Steel in the west.

I would like to see both mid-western BoS and east coast BoS in the game and also a war between the two.

Bethesda justified their characterization of the Brotherhood completely by making it controversial in-niverse, and New Vegas even built on this by saying that the Brotherhood HAS to change in order to survive, and showing us what happened to the Brotherhood of Steel on the west coast.

They're definitely not 100% white knights, as others have explained. And what's so hard to believe about a Brotherhood Elder seeing a dire situation like the Pitt or the Super Mutant problem in DC, and thinking "Mission be damned, I should do something about this!"? Which, I'll repeat, caused a mutiny in his chapter.

I never had a huge problem with the writing in Fallout 3, but I feel like the Brotherhood is the most convincing part of the entire main quest.

I'm curious to see how the Brotherhood (whichever they are) interacts with Androids. It's tech that fights back!

Not to mention there's still a number of members in the order that look down on outsiders with pure disdain, despite being an alleged 'heart in their hand' faction. That is of course the Paladins in the waste weren't referring to my LW as a rock beater or cave man or some variation.

Oh please, if they did most of the things, there wouldn't be a lot to do for the player. Hostility towards actually ghouls goes well with the stereotypes since the holy knights of the order of light often pursue impurity. That just makes them "the good guys who are slightly misguided and the player needs to cure them and lead them to true light". It's so obvious, how can you not see that? Or knowing you, you probably don't want to see that.

The nonsense purifier being a PR stunt would be a nice crack in that stereotype if they didn't pursue it in a very zealous manner which directly contradicts to "it's just a PR stunt".

Good guys with a slightly misguided view towards genocide.

I agree they fit the profile of the classic holy knights, but I'm not so sure that makes them the good guys.

Wouldn't be much of a game if BoS did everything, eh?

They do have to pick their battles, and they chose SM, which at the time is the biggest threat to everyone. But hey, FO3 not super uber written, so yeah.

Most likely Lyons, or possibly Maxson, considering the name of the ship. However, this occurs only a year or two after the events of Fallout 3 if I remember correctly, and Arthur Maxson was still very young at that point. There are a few things we may need to consider.

1. Will we have different factions to side with? If so, then it's plausible for the Lyons BOS to be against the Institute, with the Institute acting as our new Enclave.

2. We might have two different BOS factions inhabiting the same area. We may end up having both the Midwest BOS, as well as the Lyons chapter, although that could get confusing.

We don't have an exact start date. All that has been said is 200 years after the bombs dropped, which means the game is at the earliest starting Oct 23 2277, which would be a couple months after the start of FO3.

I don't think we can go by names of ships or how PA looks etc, as everything that has been shown to us has been selected by BGS, and I would think they have left everything as vague as possible to not give any exact details on the story. If we saw PA that looked more like FoT PA, people would say, it MW BoS for sure. If they showed a Lyon's Pride member, people would know it is Lyon's group. If they gave us the exact date, we would have a fairly good idea who it would be(2277 would firmly suggest it MW).

All we can say for a fact is BoS is there.