And I doubt it's exactly 200 years after the bombs fell, because that places Fallout 4 before New Vegas. And one of the only things Beth forced Obsidian to do was place New Vegas after Fallout 3 on the timeline; by that point they had already started pre-production work on Fallout 4, presumably including the plot and setting on the timeline.

Yeah, because such a large faction of the millions of pre-orders are honestly wondering whether it's Lyon's or Midwestern Brotherhood. How convenient that we cannot go by what we have been seen in your opinion.

Your right though, Bethesda have shown us what they want us to see, which is Fallout 3 armour in a ship named specifically from Arthurian Lore which they tried to borrow from for Fallout 3.

It FONV armor, too, so again, armor doesn't mean diddly. Airship doesn't mean diddly, either, but if you want to go by Airships then it points more towards FOT than FO3, or even more towards WC BoS.

I'm saying you can't make a clear but decision based upon what is shown, because what is shown, is vague. But, you know everything, right? So why don't you fill us all in on the entire story of FO 4 based upon what we have seen, as clearly you also know about every other faction, their motives, and the MQ of the game.

I'd put the odds at 90% chance its Lyons Brotherhood and 10% chance its MWBOS/Other Brotherhood.

I just can't see any good reason to put the Midwest into Fallout 4 when the East Coast BOS would make more sense and fits far more with what we've seen thus far.

But, knowing Bethesda and their issues with narrative consistency, who knows really. They could pull something out of their ass I'm sure.

I would think the reason BGS made Obsidian place the game after FO 3 is because if it was before 3 it wouldn't make much sense. The entire ED-E quest, and ED-E himself would need to be scrapped, what with refrences of Col Autumn, AAFB, being an eyebot and all, etc.

You also would be getting into possible timeline conflicts, what with Lyon's group being sent east, Navarro falling and Enclave remnants, NCR/BoS war, etc. We would be looking at a vastly different game, not to mention results of said game would have placed the canon events before FO 3, which could also lead to potential timeline conflicts, not to mention nothing of NV would have been mentioned about in 3(had it chronologically happened before 3). Just doesn't seem like a wise choice to have placed NV before 3.

Now, if 4 mentions nothing of the WC having it set before NV doesn't impact anything with the game, if say it is MW BoS or Lyon's BoS. I highly doubt we will hear about anything from NV, regardless if the game is 2277 or 2290.

And the Midwest developed their own armour to replace T51-b, which was superior to T-45d anyway which is why it is not in common use in the Western Brotherhood. Since it was the WCBoS that built the first Airships then we know the knowledge of their constuction is common to all. Typically though you cherry-pick what you choose to answer.

Your the one bleating that we only have so many facts and the only way that they don't point to the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood is by you making highly vague and highly unlike arguements. We know that in Fallout 4 there is a power armour called T60, which appears highly similar to T-45d with better stats which would indicate to me upgraded T-45d suits used by the Brotherhood. We have that the Airship is named from Arthurian lore which was the primary inspiration for Bethesda's depication of the Brotherhood in F3 - hence why they named him Arthur Maxson in the first place.

But of-course you won't address this [censored] because you can't.


It's not vague, it, and just common-sense, lean towards this being Lyon's Brotherhood of Steel.

Also I never made any such claims. Such hyper-boyle is only made by overly-touchy reactionaries who can't accept any alternate answers, cherry-pick what they address and try to drown out what they can't in such ridiculous lies like "I claim to know everything".


Still doesn't address the fact that Bethesda mandate that games all take place after the previous. There were Enclave remnants in Van Buren, along with much of what ended up being in New Vegas.

The big puzzling thing to me is the lack of resources in the ruins of DC to construct a airship, why they would construct an airship instead of say rebuilding Liberty Prime, why would they bypass NYC, which is between DC and Boston(and with the vast area of NYC that seems like a time sink and desirable place to explore).

Just seems odd to me. I'm at 50-50. I'd much rather have MW BoS from a lore perspective(I want to know what they have been up to for the 70+ years since FOT), but I won't be too disappointed if it is not, as we should get lore either way(Unless it is some other group besides MW or Lyon's and the date is 2277 and we get no lore from 3 or FOT. Then, I would be disappointed).

Well keep in mind all that was probably determined after the time frame of the game was set. Obsidian originally planned for the game to occur much earlier in the timeline. And would have constructed a narrative to match.

If we see the MWBOS, I want to see them in their home region: the Midwest. Not showing up in Boston randomly.

As for the resources bit, I'm not at all buying the idea that the game takes place 2 months after Fallout 3. My guess is several years post-New Vegas, which would allow the East Coast BoS time to formulate an actual state in the Capital Wasteland region and acquire more resources and manpower to do things like build an airship.

Edit: And as to why bypass NYC. Likewise, why would the MWBOS bypass everything east of the Midwest to get to the Commonwealth. Perhaps NYC was bombed to hell and isn't all that interesting.

Presumably because of the Institute and their tech. Why would Harkness skip NYC or Baltimore or Philly to get to Washington? Maybe the Nuclear War destroyed New York City? There's a lot of cities in-between Chicago and Boston too, why would the MWBoS ignore all those.

Or am I just presuming to much about the story of the game now?


Don't be bringing rationality into this old sport. We don't know anything, everything is up in the air, everything is possible and everything is vague.

If Airship construction is common to all factions of BoS, then the appearance of an Airship is nothing, as it doesn't directly imply what faction it is. Which, is what I said.

Didn't someone point out that the 2 PA troopers guarding the entrance to the Vault in the video are wearing what appears to be this T60 PA? This means that armor is also vague, as it for some reason could be native to the Boston area.

Where did BGS get their Arthurian inspiration from to begin with? From FO 1, 2, and Tactics, which again, makes it vague.

I haven't said who the BoS in FO 4 is, I say it is too vague to tell for a fact, but you act like you know. So, good for you.

Actually you said it implies the CWBoS least.


On rewatch it does look like it. Or maybe it's just T-45d, everything's so vague! By your logic anyway.


Where is this the case? What in previous Fallout's is exactly Arthurian rather than just vaguely Medieval rather than how overt is was in Fallout 3.


Yeah, it's just common-sense mate.

Whilst we're here, what's your flimsy justification for Vertibirds not indicating Capital Wasteland Brotherhood?

Yeah well, every place was bombed to hell, including DC. Still went there. As far as why MW BoS would bypass everything to get to Boston, I would say that would have to involve the Synths. Plus, there are not cities like NYC between Chicago and Boston. Detroit I guess, but it is also 70+ years from time of MW BoS, so they could have already gone to and explored places like Detroit, etc, where as Lyon's group hasn't explored, or had as much time to explore as the MW BoS has.

Lyon's group still has to clean up around DC, imo, before going anywhere, and then why bypass NYC, which could take years and years to explore and could be worthwhile.

Basically, MW BoS has had a long time to prepare for any kind of adventure, and we don't know what they have been up to. Lyon's group still has to clean up DC post FO 3, finish off Super Mutants, then start building and exploring. Even a few short years after FO 3 for a start time of 4 seems to be odd to me, with everything they apparently have to do.

Actually, I said Airships meant diddly, but going by where they appeared in game before, it points more towards FOT or WC. I did say it meant diddly.

in FO 1, 2, and FO T there are Arthurian BoS easter eggs and in the case of Tactics, non-easter egg references.

As far as the appearance of Verts, because they are included in the footage from 2077 as being in the area, I don't think Verts means Enclave or CWBoS.

I have talked about this in previous topics about this but it could go either way and is very up in the air and it really does depend on the date.

If as Todd said at the reveal that it is 200 years you can throw CWBos out. Lets face it there is no time for them to make it to Boston and little reason too (despite the Arthurian connection (vague for both sides of the argument)). But wait you say what about the armour.

T-60 has not appeared in previous games so useless to try and figure this out

X-01 (Enclave armour) should indicate CWBos or WBos but wait there was a little fact from F3 or FNV that states there is an Enclave base in Chicago, where did the MWBos crash land?......Chicago, and the MWBos use an armour that looks a lot like the Enclave armour from F3 that I would say is the X-01, also in Chicago what could the MWBos find at an Enclave base..... Vertibirds. Although no mention of these were made in FT it would be safe to assume that since they have the armour they may have the Vertibirds.

So the only "real" (and that is a stretch of the word) evidence we have of the CWBos is the Arthurian stuff with the Maxon line. In my humble opinion that is not enough if as I say we stick with the 2277 time. If it has been 20 years and if Todd just felt like saying 200 years for the simplicity of it, it could be either faction (leaning toward the CWBos).

So once again the armour, vertibirds, and airships could mean either faction and mostly the timing would be the deciding factor, or Bethesda could just do whatever they want since they are making the game.

D.C. has the Pentagon and various military installations related to the government. We really have nothing on NYC lore-wise so for all we know its just a big crater. Or perhaps its a hellish slum like the Pitt. No idea. I assume we may find out more in Fallout 4.

However, I don't take skipping NYC as any real indication of it not being the CWBOS. Keep in mind, they skipped the entire U.S. to get to D.C.

Well couldn't that be the same reason for the CWBOS?

Well, I think it is safe to say that NYC in the FO Universe is still a prominent place, and part of the top 3 cities in the USA, along with LA and Chicago. If LA wasn't just a big crater, then I doubt NYC would be. Not to mention, and no offense to people who live in Kansas or Nebraska, etc etc, but none of those places have a city like NYC. Taking the most direct route from Cali to DC, there isn't many places to stop.

Presumably the CWBoS have no idea about the Calculator, thus why the MWBoS may get all antsy if they hear about advanced robots.

I think it really depends if Todd's "200 years" is actually 200 years or if it was just said to specifically NOT indicate whether 4 is before or after NV. I mean, 200 years exactly could be explained as simply as "hey hun let's set these cryo chambers for 200 years and we'll see how the world is doing then". But without a leak, I don't think we will know before release

If NYC was still an important place, someone would have mentioned it already. Yet they haven't.

The trade routes of the east coast go as far south as North Carolina, as far north as Massachusetts, and as far west as Ronto and the Pitt, and no one in D.C., or The Pitt, mentioned NYC at all.

-Both Tobar and Quinn, long-time traders who have gone all up and down the east coast don't mention it.

-Ashur, the ruler of The Pitt, compares his city to the likes of D.C., Boston, and Ronto, yet makes no mention of NYC.

-The scientist Zimmer, who would have had to walk right past NYC on his trip from Boston to D.C., doesn't say a word about it.

-Marcella, the missionary from The Abbey of the Road, which is likely in New York state based on its location description, speaks of rumor from The Pitt, and going to The Commonwealth, and D.C., on her terminal, but makes no mention of what was the most famous city in her home territory.

NYC, if it still exists, has apparently been reduced down to something like Philly, which was called "in ruins", and "that dump" by at least one person from D.C., and given how bad D.C. was, thats paiting a pretty empty picture.

Well obviously that will be a huge factor, exactly 200 years makes it impossible for it to be the CWBOS, hell, FO3 probably wouldn't even be finished, taking into account the DLCs, Broken Steel, etc.

I don't think that's safe to say at all.

Ashur didn't even mention it when he spoke of Ronto, D.C., the Pitt, and the Commonwealth all in a speech about the great important places of the region.

And if it were some sort of treasure-trove or something, surely someone would have made note of it.

Just because a place hasn't been mentioned doesn't mean anything. Plenty of places have never been mentioned.

Even if it is in ruins, there would still be pre-war loot to be salvaged, just like everywhere else, and I'm sure there were vaults there, too, seeing how, it was NYC after all and home to some of the richest people in the USA.

Why for? So you can open yourself up to attack? Hey, we have treasure here, come raid us. Seems like you guys haven't learned very much playing these fallout games, that it is best to keep your mouth shut about yer treasure, and vaults, and tech. Attention gets you raided.

prime reason to go to NYC:

http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/goldvault.html

Through all the games, no one has mentioned NYC? Good that place svcks

I don't really follow you're logic. How can NYC simultaneously be so important as to be unskippable, but at the same time so secretive that nobody has mentioned or heard of it?

Can't be both.

Regardless, we have nothing on NYC. So saying "It just has to be an important place." Is completely untrue. We have no idea because nothing concrete has been said.

Edit: As you yourself said

I say it is too vague to tell for a fact, but you act like you know.

Sure it does, Its basic world building. If its not mentioned, yet is inside an area we know about, then it not important.

If you were talking about some city in the American south, like from Texas to Georgia, where we have never been, and no one, outside like Tycho from Fallout 1, has ever gone too to report back on what the major locations are, then you would have a point.

But NYC is like Sacramento in California, if no one had mentioned it in Fallout 1, 2, or NV, then it would be safe to assume there's nothing there anymore. It wouldn't be the first time either, Salt Lake City was said to have been entirely destroyed in the war, and Denver become home to nothing but rabid dogs, with one or two tribal groups on the outliers worshiping them. NYC could have befallen any number of disasters that caused basically everyone to leave it so long ago that its not even worth mentioning anymore.