Also, if you look at the likes of MGE, you can see that the game engine wasn't put to its full potential. I think it was probably gimped down for consoles.

Some of the things I see with distant land must have been created with distant land, surely. They go so well. For example, when I'm in Balmora, I can see a Dwemer ruin in the distance, in the mountains. It looks so spectacular. And looking at Red Moutain from outside the Ghostfence is amazing.

those look very nice indeed Hel Borne. thanks for the link and small restoration of hope. although i was mostly amused by this video which showcases probably the two worst gamers i have ever seen. http://www.emergent.net/en/Multimedia/Videos/ZORSIS-Video/ if i was going in front of a shooting squad i would specifically ask for them.

as for the other things......most shooters have a third person view you just have to use the console to get it.

the spells in oblivion were nothing special, even two worlds had better looking spells than oblivion did.

oblivions hand to hand combat is very good....one of the things that they did better than morrowind. but ive seen better such as in dark messiah which runs on the source engine. which at this point it ancient.

there was more wildlife in crysis than in oblivion........if you swim in the water there are fish everywhere and they swim away from you if you get to close and birds are flying everywhere also.

oblivions AI consists of set schedules with wander packages, nothing special that i havents seen in other games. the vanilla economy is nonexistant....you have to mod that in. im however not going to defend crysis awful AI....even on the hard mods i was sniping people right next to eachother with no reaction, apparently bethesda wasnt the only one that had issues with realistic npc reaction.

im not sure what you meant by books and inventory system and quests since thats been in video games for decades. look at any old school rpg and they have even more elaborate systems than oblivion did.

and for time of day its been awhile since ive played crysis but i seem to remember the beginning of the game starting off at pre dawnish and then moving to sunrise and so on. its preset times for gameplay i think but you could see the changes in the angles of the shadows and stuff.

You do realize that what you're talking about is the GAME Crysis, just because those things are not in that game does not mean it's not possible with the engine. In fact a mod project has turned Crysis in a mech combat game.
Back in GTA3 times people thought the engine simply can't handle flying, Vice City and San Andreas proved them different. Hell the engine was expanded to having full real time shadows for the PC release and a mod even added GTA4 like graphic effects.

Just look at what is all possible with for example the Unreal engine, they programmed Jump n Runs with it, horror games, with some programming and tweaking a lot is possible.

Oh and btw, CryEngine DOES do daytime changes and playing in 3rd person is possible as well.

Yeah, but Crysis doesn't handle:

1) 1.000 npcs

2) 200 locations, wich all needs a certain view distant from the player eyes.

3) Main questline and 4 guild questline.

4) Automatic container loot.

5) Schedule for all npc's - Go to church, open/close shop, street patrol, go to sleep.

6) Auto leveling system for npc's and enemies.

7) Interaction with all friendly npc's.

8) A trigger for npc's to recognize and comment the player as he/she completes quests.

9) Spawn points for 60 oblivion gates throughout the world.


These are all those things that even the sandbox games doesn't handle!

Oh GROAN, again, CRYSIS doesn't do that but that says NOTHING ABOUT IF THE ENGINE CAN DO IT. Game made =|= full capabilities of the engine.
Hell by that logic you could say that RUNNING in "Sam and Max, season 2" would not be possible because it was not possible in season one, but look and behold, it is.

Seriously, get off that "It wasn't in a game based on that so it IS NEVER POSSIBLE" thinking.


PS: Morrowind couldn't do bumpmapping, clearly Gamebryo is incapable of doing that... oh, wait...

I hate being in the position of defending Gamebryo but I think the core tech is there and combined with partner solutions and Beth custom programming I'm quite confident the next ES game 'could' be unrivalled in graphics. Its primarily a willingness of Bethesda to buy or make the right technologies. Honestly, there is nothing magical here. I agree, ES could be made on CryEngine3 but that just isn't going to happen.

How many times do I need to say it? The engine doesn't matter when considering the looks of the game. All we need at this point is good lighting. The games have always been less atmospheric due to it.

Right now, all we need to worry about wih the engine is th gameplay.

Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cryengine3_screenshot.png. If Bethesda is to make TES V look as good as this without this engine, great, but I have to say that it would be difficult and that looks amazing. Like I said, I'm expecting TES V to look great, though.

http://www.emergent.net/en/Multimedia/Videos/Gamebryo-Video-2009/

Some of those look pretty good graphics-wise. Not gonna lie.

Even better than Oblivion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31YOA109QnQ&feature=related

Look at http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac285/Rellac/MGEScreenshot2-1.jpg. I know it doesn't compare to Crysis, but it uses older meshes and textures, and it's on my crappy ocmputer. But you can see they don't push the engine faar enough as it is.

Optimization is the problem, is it not? Will Gamebryo with much better graphics than Oblivion run on consoles?

There are a few possible engine add ons like Lightsprint and Umbra that can take care of some problems but again Gamebryo is also kinda limited in what it can take.
For example I'd LOVE for the game to use the Natural Motion engines like Euphoria (GTA4) for more natural animations, and most of all ones that can adapt to their environment (my best example is one guy who got shot, stumbled forward holding the wound, propped himself up on a mailbox before stumbling on and collapsing, all unscripted). But in the current state as far as I know it's not compatible with Gamebryo.

All I have to say is that I wish (I know it won't happen) TESV used Physx instead of Havok. Physx can do so much more!

GameBryo 2.6 supports latest versions of PhysX and http://www.havok.com/index.php?page=products. Everything evolves. Havok offers more than physics.

Yet you all do the same mistake yourself, talking about the games from gamesas, not about the things Gamebryo can or cannot do.

What makes you think gamesas would use the CryEngine more efficiently?

Thus I repeat my statement from before.
What the hell does gamebryo DO?

From all I could gather it's a GRAPHICS engine, and it doesn't do that job too great (it does it good, granted that, but if it's JUST s grpahics engine it could easily be kicked for a better one). So what DOES it do now? What is it responsible for and what can it "apparently" do better than others?
The only thing I can think of is how it handles plugins but as far as i heard it's not responsible for those either.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/32250/The-top-10-game-engines-revealed
Kinda interesting. Hardly a basis to compare though.

this might be the finest post i've ever read

There is nothing wrong with Gamebryo. It is one of the most versatile engines in the industry, it works very well with open world games, and Bethesda are quite familiar with it. Both Morrowind and Oblivion were developed on the latest Gamebryo versions for the time and they both had breathtaking visuals for the time. The only thing that can hold back TES V graphically is the extended lifespan of the current generation of consoles. Fallout 3 was also developed on a recent Gamebryo version but its graphics were marginally better than Oblivion apart from the faces of the character models which looked noticeably better. The reason is that both games were developed for the same generation of consoles and the power of the engine had to be compromised. Given that TES V will probably be released for this generation of consoles I expect it to look marginally better than Fallout 3 but with noticeably better animations.

Ohhh gotta thank you for that because i do at least see "natural motion" in that list, maaaaybe we could even see Euphoria which could add greatly to the atmosphere.

Honestly, even if it may seem like that I don't really have anything against Gamebryo but so far i just don't see what it's big advantages are, mostly because I still have no idea what the hell it actually does. But if they use those engine add ons it may look a bit brighter for the TES future, with Umbra finally open cities are possible again and the game world can be even more detailed without dieing of lag, with Lightsprint they can really make realistic shadows, natural motion can help to make more character models and animate them better (with Euphoria maybe even with real time animations)...

Now if they use all that last thing that's to hope for beth not to screw up and actually make a unique game world again... yea I still have doubts.

I think we all have concern cause we don't know what the hell Beth is doing. I would have felt a lot more confident if I'd seen some real innovations in FO3 and FONV. But these don't appear to be stepping stones. I'm holding my breath for a 'wow' moment if/when the 1st screenies of the next TES is revealed. If they lowball the graphics (even for the current consoles) I'll give it a miss. Remember IDTech5 and CryEngine3 are releasing on current consoles. There's no excuse.

So you compare the graphics between an open-ended game like TES and a level-based game like Crysis 2?

I can already tell you now that Crysis 2 will have better graphics than the next TES (if it's coming for the current consoles).

Well we can say one thing so far, it's VERY likely they'll stick with Gamebryo as a engine.

I personally would just like them to use the middlewear that is compatible with Gamebryo, at LEAST Umbra and Lightsprint since they are important to making a believable world.
As mentioned before I'd also love it if Euphoria would somehow be made compatible since it just adds a ton to the atmosphere.

When they announce TES5 I really hope they also reveal which middlewear they will use and not keep that a unnecessary secret.

then how about the first crysis which was open........still looked way better than oblivion and only came out a year later.

also compare it to dunia from far cry 2...........i never had stuttering in crysis or far cry 2 meanwhile oblivion was famous for it. only through ini edits and various mods including replacing the games memory heap have i managed a stutter free game.

it also ate most computers for breakfast, threw them up, and then had them again for lunch. i'd like to play a game, not a slideshow kthx.