St. Frantic I believe you are confusing yourself so much because you are trying to make connections that are not there.



edit: No. What happens in the Isles stays in the Isles. Seriously though, the events from the Shivering Isles will not have any effect on the events in Skyrim.

You maybe right my friend,i know where your coming from.
But thats the point exactly...does anyone else think there is a connection there?
Maybe not,as you have said,you see no connection.

This is also why i'm trying to find a link,i hope what i say below makes sense as to why.
I don't know half of what most people know on here,but there is no harm,in coming up with a theory or connection.
If it's wrong,so be it...it's how we learn-from mistakes.

Everything is changing...the amulet is broken/possibly destroyed,no dragon fires,the pact with akatosh is broken. ( padomy/sithis/void ) daedra is change.
The shivering isles is similar...that too is changing,the fires/flame over new sheo are not lit,sheo said they should be. ( the same as the dragonfires )
The greymarch cycle ( from what i gather has stopped ), just like the pact with akatosh and the empire.
To me that is a connection....it's all change.
Sheogorath is or created a hole in the void ( something like that,need to check again ).
Void to me is associated to : padomy/sithis-lorkhan.
What i'm trying to say,is no matter how small some events are they are breaking,it's like putting a jigsaw together.
If you look at what happened in the shivering isles ( to me ),it's kind of similar to what happened with the pack with the empire/dragonfires/amulet.

To me what happens in the isles is a connection to alduin and lorkhan....i think i now know what people mean about the same coin different sides.
Like sheogorath/lorkhan and alduin/jyggalag. ( i think sheo is change/chaos and jyggalag order/stasis )...thats what i'm seeing at the moment.
Hope that makes sense.

*Edit*
I like lorkhan...i want him to be seperate from alduin..well i still think he is really.
But does what i say about the connection go against that.
Is jyggalag now seperated from sheogorath?.....i believe so at the moment.
Alduin/akaosh decided to throw himself to mundas/nirn,thus linking him to stronger than the other aedra.
Tied to it the same as lorkhan.

I'm i still clutching at straws here?

It's simple. Sheogorath is the hole in Lorkhan's chest. Jyggy was acting like a jerk, so the other Daedra removed his sanity and he fell into the hole in a mirror of Convention. Notice how those books in SI play Sheo as a trickster figure? He beat Hircine by using a nimble bird to have Hircy's champion tear himself apart. He declined to take action in a bet with Vaermina, thus winning the bet. He tricked Malak into killing his own son. That sounds an awful lot more tricksy than insane.

I wouldn't expect SI to show up in Skyrim more than maybe a shrine to Jyggy and a couple books like "Whatever Happened to the Champion of Cyrodiil?"

So are you agreeing with my connection?
It seems so....lorkhan trickster = sheo trickster......right?

Where did you get the info that sheogorath is the hole in lorkhan's chest?
Or what info made you think that?

Is a person any more of a thing than a marraige of two persons?

Sithis begat Lorkhan and not Alduin, however, which inclines me to think that Shor and the dragon are as seperable as they are inseperable- though both are of course drawn from the same original mythic only-just-distinction. I'm not sure I agree that they are merely aspects of the same thing.

Eat the Dreamer calls Akatosh/Lorkhan "same-twin" connected by an "aurbrilical cord." Same thing as the coin anology - they are separate things (the coin's two sides), but you can't tell where one starts and the other begins. This is a reference not only to their being both aspects of a single divinity but also of their overlapping and changing roles. One is rebel and the other king, and they exchange roles. Thats all Shivering Isles is - a reflection of the enatiomorphic relationship on the scale of the Daedra.

In that sense, yes, there is a 'connection' between the events of SI and those of Tamriel. In the specifics, no, its no the same. I'm not convinced the Graymarch has stopped (though the events of Skyrim would indicate that they have), but even if it is still a cycle that has happened dozens of times before. The events of the empire were singular and unique, not part of a cycle. They were Dagon's domain, a bloody revolution driven by his followers, out of which no new Emperor emerged.

However, the events of both Shivering Isles and Oblivion herald the end of the Kalpa and the return of Lorkhan, as did all games before them. Shivering Isles ended the enantiomorphic cycle in the isles, and Oblivion broke the covenant between Akatosh/Shezzar and man, as well as taking out a Tower. Morrowind returned Lorkhan's heart to him, and took out a Tower. Daggerfall stressed Akatosh's reserve and got rid of the false god Numidium, which was also a Tower. Its all building up for one hell of a godly end-of-the-world struggle in Skyrim.

I hope that covers it. I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say, tbh.

I have a suspicion all our conjecturing will come to naught when Skyrim finally shows up...


We may all be entirely wrong

I have to agree; we do know some stuff, but there is a lot of stuff we don't know. Stuff that they'll surely elaborate on.

We might be wrong on the details, but the framework is already clear. Everything I said about the earlier games preparing us for Skyrim is supported directly by Game Informer.

My head is all over the place at the moment. I read something,think i understand it,then read something else,then get confused again. Thanks for the links by the way.
Some things i have read are just way over my head,i cannot crasp them. Anyway...i'm looking for a response,be it good,bad or whatever. From there,that may lead me to other info,or a better understanding of info that confuses me.Thus making me re-read it in the hopes of understanding it. See it as me clawing for a reaction,from people who understand better than me,but somehow describe it in a simple manner ( the manner i'm comfortable with ). I'll read something,then i won't understand it.That then makes me frustrated/want to give up,which in turn annoys me. Then someone will take that frustration i have,and turn it into a push/motivation.In a nutshell,i want to come to my own conclusions about the info i read.But in order to that ( sometimes ), i need a push/motivation to do say......is that lazy on my part?...thats for others to decide. I'm new to this and need time to take it all in...i think half of my problem is patience.I hope that makes sense.


Ok....now i'm going to throw something else out there. It's very basic ( i will look into it more ),but for now i'll mention it,and see what response i get. Now if i may ,going back to the same coin,different sides thing.Akatosh/lorkhan...Sheo/jyggy. Like you say: "You can't tell where one starts and one ends/begins". At the moment the thing that stands out to me is the cycle.
A continous cycle that keeps churning away/never ending/or ending and beginning without stopping. Ok...this is the basic idea/thought i have at the moment without great detail/or deeper thought yet.

Ok..."The coin" = as one."Two sides" = Alter ego's....Akatosh = one side,Lorkhan = the other. Now when you say "where does one end and the other begin etc"...this is what i thought.
What if that coin needs a spinner/or someone to flip it? This made me think of Lord Dagon. So now you have two sides of the coin and someone to flip the coin...thus changing sides.
Cycle/or continous cycle: Say it starts with akatosh....that continues untill it needs to change...That change starts with a flip of the coin = Dagon ( he changes )...Then that cycle ends and begins as lorkhan. Thus this repeats over and over. So akatosh,lorkhan and dagon are all the same ( cycle ) but different parts of the cycle. well I hope what i've put here makes sense.
Like i said it's basic. Anyway take it as you will.

I don't think we should look things like that. At least with two sides of coin. Coin always has two sides. Side which is up doesn't really matter. So you shouldn't think it as flipping coin. Like said, both are always there, here and everywhere. Coin example in any case might not fit in here, are there are more than two sides at play. Alduin, Akatosh, Lorkhan, and more.

Overall i get feeling that you think things too much in... monomyth (if that is correct word). The reality is that there are probably atleast 5 versions of God of Time. Auriel, Alduin, Akatosh and so on. How much these are separate persons, or are they just different personalities of same person? I don't know and as i'm not a shrink so i can't tell so much about multiple personalities. However MK has suggested that Akatosh might want to spare this kalpa as it's his favorite. Yeah. Suggested. Lorkhan/Shor is probably most uniform god thru out tamriel, and pretty much only. If we don't count Talos and Ysmir etc. into this aswell. And are Lorkhan and Akatosh tied together more that Lorkhan and Auriel for example? Yeah. A tough one.

Maybe we should see it as big bubble which presents all of them and then smaller bubbles inside it to present all the aspects of it. These small bubbles can join and disintegrate. Or then maybe this is bad example which (again) direct thoughts into wrong direction.

I dont' think your coin example fits into cycle/kalpa as well. Yes, from Alduin's point of view world should end. There are others who don't agree in that. Maybe it should be seen more as rope pulling content between teams? I am not interested to dig up sources right now, but i've read texts suggesting it and based on it there are lots of powers affecting this. No, didn't get much support from wiser people... But they didn't lynch it either (probably will now)

I personally haven't paid attention to SI. And i get pretty unpleasant vibes when someone tries to look at SI and understand how things will happen in Skyrim. Yup, probably big mistake.

Take your time to learn it. Hard to do it over night as there are so many different angles how it should be looked at to understand it. As encouragement: you have probably understood more of it that i did in my first two years. But i'm not that smart... Reason why i still svck at it.