So for my final play through as a Nord I'm trying to decide which side to join. The Empire or the stormcloaks, but the thing is that my Nord isn't that simple minded or runs on just his feelings. So it really hard to decide which side to join with such a complex character so here a few things about him that you should know.

1:He part of a very powerful family that is famous in Cyrodill and Skyrim.

2: He not scared of magic since his family has a few elves in his bloodline and he see the power magic holds.

3: He hates the Thalmor with passion since they killed his younger sister.

4:He admires Talos has a great warrior and general during his time but he doesn't exactly worship like crazy like other people do, but he knows Tiber is a divine now and will not have the Thalmor tell him he wrong since clearly knows there lying.

5:He isn't racist against other races.

6:He honorable and always love to face challenges.

7:Two of his ancestors were dragon priests(Ahzidal and Moroeki) and is quite aware about dragons and priest masks since it part of his family lore book.

8: He hates that the Empire sign the white-gold concordat and hate the emperor for being so weak, but part him understands why he did it even though he wants to put a blade up the emperor throat.

9:He respects Nord traditions.

10:He kills every Thalmor he sees in Skyrim.

11: He understands why the Stormcloaks want freedom from the Empire and admires them for that but he also quite suspicious of Ulfric and the jarls that he seen for the stormcloaks, specially Skald.

12:He been praised for being a smart warrior and brilliant at discovering enemy weakness and exploiting it

13: He reads a lot things about Skyrim history specially the Dragons and anything related to the dragons.

So that everything about him. Also I played both sides of the war already and been neutral a few times.

Not another Civil war thread....this will not end well.

Vote Empire.

Everything about the Stormcloaks are just right: it's just their prejudice ways that [censored] with you

Now I will be making my exit because I know they're coming.

Alduin is merciful, as am I. Join the Dragon cult today, and honor your ancestors. You can bring some honor back to Ahzidal's blasphemous traitorous path.

Empire. Im a member of the Legion and I still kill any Thalmor I meet outside of Solitude...

The Stormcloaks are too.. uncivilized for my taste.

He seems like a someone who would join the stormcloaks but still care about the empire.

You could argue vice versa. Sympathizes with the Stormcloak's values but sided with the Empire.

People will be biased on their own side and vote depending on their own opinions instead of what fits the character.

So yeah.

Whatever side you join is entirely up to you. Does your character believe in freedom and independence for the nords and is against forced unity? Or does your character believe in the strength of a unified empire and is against handing Skyrim over to a bunch of racist, bumbling nords, that probably can't run even run a country for themselves?

Or does your character even care about this conflict at all?

The choice is yours to make.

Just wanna point out some things many empire supporters forget about,not here,but i have seen it elsewhere.

-If the Stormcloaks win, trade with the Empire will not die.Why they asume it would die is beyond me.
Also in case you didn't notice the main nords that are Empire supporters were corrupt olygarchic businessmen with connections in the Thieves Guild- Erikur,Olfrid Battleborn ,Maven Blackbriar,ect.

-Other races in Skyrim would not be supressed any more than they are now.The supression would even be lower and is gonna die out because the current situation is born out of the Thalmor pressence ,witch causes distrust in outsiders,specialy elves.

-Elisif is simply a weak jarl and even weaker would-be Hight Queen.What will happen if the Imperials win is basicaly Skyrim will be under the direct control of the Empire.They might as well call the jarls - counts, as in Cyrodil ,Skyrim will be a seperate province in name only.The first impresion of Ulfric is a strong man fit to rule because of his qualities,not because he is next in line.

-If the Stormcloaks win, relations with the Empire would not be as bad as Empire supporters make them out to be.Diplomatic activity would be established with embassies and such.After Skyrim is independent i can't see any reason why Ulfric Stormcloak and the Empire would be hostile.At the most ,a little mistrust for a time,yes,but that's all.

-If the Stormcloaks win ,in the next Great War the Thalmor is going to face most propably an aliance between Skyrim,Empire(Cyrodil and Hight Rock) and Hammerfell.Why Empire supporterss think the Thalmor is gonna quickly overrun a lone and small Empire in the next war is again beyong me.


Basicaly its a mistery why people think in order to defeat the Thalmor all men nations must be under the authority of Cyrodil.In the worse emperial case,the Empire would stop being an Empire and it would simply be the nation of Cyrodil.Part of an alliance/coalition,made up from independent states.

Also : The Thalmor were somewhat successful in the last war because they atacked by surprise.Their forces are just hight elves from Summerset and some Bosmer in Valenwood.Also hight elves tend to live longer and dont reproduce as quickly.Manpower is clearly in favour of Cyrodil alone- combined with Hight Rock,forces of the Empire's allies - Skyrim and Hammerfel ,the Thalmor is going to lose in all cases.And if we add the Dragonborn and his dragon allies,i feel sorry for the Thalmor in the next war.


No matter,either Stormcloak or Empire victory in Skyrim,the Dominion loses in the next war.But if the Stormcloaks win,Skyrim will have a strong warrior king and an exellent army .Skyrim would destroy the Dominion - the Ysgramor style(minus the elf genocide),not the boring imperial legion style.

* * *
The main goal of the Thalmor in Skyrim is a broken Skyrim with low morale.Don't know if that will happen in an event of Imperial victory,but it certainly won't if the Stormcloaks win.
Yes the Empire will be weaker,but the forces of men(humans) won't..

I am not a 100% Stormcloak supporter,just pointing out that a Stormcloak victory is not as bad as some people make it out to be.

* * *

The only negative thing about the Stormcloaks is the prejudice vs other races in Windhelm,other than that i can't see any reason why someone would support the Empire except ofcourse if he is just a pure Imperial(the political entity,not the race) fan

To me this character seem to be a little to broad in his values to be ale to give a good answer to who he would support. Very easy to justify each side. At the end of the day, the question would be if he thinks the Empire has a chance to revive or not. If yes, then he must ask himself if he think it is worth it. If no is the answer to either of these questions, the Stormcloaks seem like the better option.

When You find Yourself as a member of the Majority, it is time to join the Minority.

Which side would Your character's Sister support if She was not killed by the Thalmor?

Which side has Sons and Daughters of Skyrim willing to live off the Land because They know what is Right.

I side no one, i only care of killing dragons, that's my job

Skyrim politic is not my concern, let the people decide, it's democracy

you are but another False Dragonborn. I am Miraak, I am the true.... dragonborn. I regret killing dragons you know. It's good to know Hevnoraak accepted me back into the dragon cult.

During my time in Apocrypha I have come to see the Stormcloak as the closest to true sons and daughters of Skyrim.

I am a Breton, i am not from Skyrim, it is unjust if i take side.

Let the Nords decide for themselves what good for them, i am there to destroy dragons before they destroy the world

Join the Empire. Kill the Emperor and pull a Hjalti. New Talos; everybody (outside the Dominion) wins.

The moral and governing failures of the Empire

There have been multiple examples of the Empire's failings in history to their people. The relevant ones I'll give are Valenwood, and Morrowind, then later Hammerfell.

"In http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fourth_Era#4E_29, the government of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Valenwood was overthrown by Thalmor collaborators and a union with Alinor proclaimed. It appears that Thalmor agents had formed close ties to certain http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bosmer factions even before the Oblivion Crisis. The Empire and its Bosmer allies, caught completely off guard, were quickly defeated by the much-better prepared http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Altmer forces that invaded Valenwood on the heels of the coup. Thus was the Aldmeri Dominion reborn." -The Great War (book)

This was likely possible due to the early negligence of the Empire during the Imperial Simulacrum, which admittedly was not the Empire's fault, as the Emperor was at the time held captive and was replaced by Jagar Tharn. But even after this happened, the Empire allowed themselves to be caught off guard by the Thalmor, and had no idea that they had secretly sided with Bosmer in Valenwood, and was completely taken by surprise when they decided to take it. Now, this was a simple error on their part, and no one can truly blame them for this, as the Thalmor are crafty and no one saw this coming. Even so, the civilians in Valenwood are the ones who are paying, as the game has hinted to us through Delphine that the Thalmor are doing some Ethic Cleansing. But After something like this, and after the Khajiit seceded to join the Dominion after they claimed they returned the moons that disappeared (the moons are a big part of Khajiit culture), you'd think the Empire would have taken the Thalmor as a more serious threat.

Go back a bit and look at Morrowind. During the Oblivion Crisis, the Empire, according to the DLC "Dragonborn", abandoned their provinces in an attempt to protect Cyrodil. They left Morrowind among other provinces unprotected to save themselves, and left everyone to the mercy of the Daedra. Morrowind citizens now resent the Empire despite it not being the same Dynasty. The developers made it a point for us to see that in game npc's still treat this Empire as the Third and same Empire, despite this one being the Mede Dynasty.This is likely because even though the Emperor is different, the way the Empire or maybe the Elder Council operates is inherently the same. An example of this is Hammerfell.

Hammerfell during the Great War was attacked simultaneously with Cyrodiil by the Thalmor. Hammerfell at the time was in a state of constant infighting (note that they interfered in Skyrim's infighting, but not Hammerfell's) and were taken by surprise when the Thalmor came in. Later during the war when the Thalmor sacked the Imperial city, the Empire ordered General Decianus to abandon his post and return to the Imperial City. If it were up to the ones in charge, the Empire would have completely abandoned Hammerfell right then and there. Luckily, the General decided to disobey his order, and discharged a large force of "invalids" to fight in Hammerfell.

All this shows that even though the Empire has not always been under the same dynasty, they still treat their provinces the same. As expendable. Valenwood was simply an error on their part, but when you look at all these failings, it is clear that the Empire is just unable to protect their provinces whether it be their fault or not.

After the heroic efforts of the Nords, Imperials and Bretons, even admittedly Titus Mede himself, the Empire finally took back the Imperial city. After this happened, the Empire signed the infamous White Gold Concordat, which would 1. Outlaw Talos Worship, and 2. Give away almost Half of Hammerfell to the Thalmor (admittedly already occupied by the elves.) While the Empire themselves could not afford to fight on, neither could the Thalmor. I used to believe that they could not know the Thalmor were as weak as they were, but the Great War book states that the info in the book was taken from the Thalmor themselves:

Author's Note: Much of what is written in this book is pieced together from documents captured from the enemy during the war, interrogation of prisoners, and eyewitness accounts from surviving soldiers and Imperial officers.

And the book clearly states:


In 4E 174, the Thalmor leadership committed all available forces to the campaign in Cyrodiil, gambling on a decisive victory to end the war once and for all.

This means the Empire had a good idea of the Thalmor's state, but bought into their bluff anyway when they signed the White Gold Concordat. The Redguards of Hammerfell did not wish to give up their land so easy and wanted to fight on. The Empire instead of at least giving supplies to the Redguards or some kind of non combatant support instead just completely dropped Hammerfell as a province. They say they were forced, but the Thalmor, as they apparently knew, could not force anything. The Thalmor wouldn't be in any position to assault Cyrodiil for sending supplies even if they wanted to. You may be thinking that the Empire would need those supplies to rebuild, and you'd be right. But the cost of a whole Province being lost is greater than at least meager support of military supplies so Hammerfell could defend itself, and take back it's land. Now the Empire is out yet another Province, and they only have two, not counting Cyrodiil.

To reiterate.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1453352-taking-sides-between-imperials-or-stormcloaks-but-what-about-the-orcs-and-forsworn/?p=22489750

The “Skyrim cannot survive alone”-argument

This one is one of the simpler arguments to debunk, because any high school dropout can look at the map and see how silly this argument is. Here. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/918987149705159097/C22C10AE7A645DE484D4521251914E3138836D83/&imgrefurl=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id%3D91249786&h=1202&w=1861&sz=93&tbnid=nBGo07R-Omi71M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=139&zoom=1&usg=__7BIkCEpKVKwWqHJ0jtswf0XmBMU=&docid=Tpko8a8T0KYY3M&sa=X&ei=l3tIUd2vEIyy8AT6zYGwCQ&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAA&dur=1510

Lets look at the two ways a military force can invade a territory. The first possibility is by Land. If the Thalmor were to attempt this, they'd need to go through either Morrowind (not allies of the Thalmor, and never have been, plus Argonians occupy part of it and are fighting the Dark Elves) or Hammerfell (obviously hostile to the Dominion) or through Cyrodiil. Now many say that there's the solution. The Thalmor have a treaty with the Empire, and they are allowed through Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Two things. One, the Justiciars are allowed, and two, whole armies are clearly not. How do I know this? Tullius himself says at the Empire is currently guarding it's border to watch for an attack from the Dominion. Think about that for a sec. If the Thalmor were allowed to walts in whenever they wanted, why the hell is the Empire wasting their time guarding their borders? It makes no sense. Clearly the deal of the Thalmor in their territory extends solely to Justiciars for hunting down "heretics" not their whole army.

Now look at Skyrim's natural barriers. Mountains. The worst kind. You cannot sustain an flow of troops and supplies through a mountain range. Not easily anyway. Couple that with the intense weather, and you have a complete supply chain disaster. Now, the Thalmor, assuming they actually did get through Cyrodiil in whatever fashion still would have trouble getting through even if they used the Pale Pass, due to it's treacherous reputation. Here's an example of how it caused trouble for Tullius during the Stormcloak rebellion:

^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pale_Pass#cite_note-4} In http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fourth_Era#4E_201, the Pale Pass was closed due to avalanches, preventing Imperial reinforcements from helping to secure Falkreath Hold under Imperial control during the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Stormcloak_Rebellion.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pale_Pass#cite_note-5http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pale_Pass#cite_note-6}

In short, a land invasion is highly unlikely in the current situation. I didn't even talk about the obvious disadvantage of fighting in a cold climate that the Thalmor are not at all used to fighting in (their homeland is SUMMERSET ISLE for Talos's sake) against a people who are literally magically resistant to cold weather and magic.

Now lets look at what the Thalmor are actually good at. Naval invasion. The Thalmor are known to have the most advanced and powerful naval force in Tamriel. But even the most advanced naval ships cannot successfully invade without a safe port nearby to house reinforcements and supplies to sustain the attack. See how far away Summerset Isle is? It would be comically impractical to invade Skyrim from this far away, whether that be by land or sea. Even our real life history proves this fact to be true. The Thalmor can't set one on the coast of Skyrim to the North because one, they'd be under constant attack, and two, the Sea of Ghosts is as the name suggests extremely treacherous. They don't have any islands nearby to do this either. The only possibility they have is to anger the Dark Elves as well, and take one of those islands that are literally on the opposite side of Tamriel from Summerset Isle. Then they'd be fighting two nearby nations at the same time, and this time one of them is magically adept, and are as tough as the Nords are. So without a true safe port, this invasion tactic is even more unlikely to succeed.

This is why I personally laugh at those who say "without the Empire in Skyrim, the Stormcloaks are doomed." The Nords could literally sit back and gulp down some Black-Briar mead while the land does the fighting for them.

The “racist” accusations towards Ulfric and the "racist" accusations towards the Stormcloak faction

Nothing gives me a headache more than debating over this. Before I start, I would like to show you the definition of "racism".

• The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as...
• Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

First off, I'd like to say almost everyone in this game is "technically" racist, because they believe certain races are good at certain things, and discriminate against them because of it. Whether that be Nords thinking elves are physically weak, or Imperials thinking Nords are axe swinging barbarians, or Altmer thinking men as a whole are less intellegent. Only thing is, in Tamriel, some of these things are based from truth! But lets assume it is not, and look at the claims of racism to the Stormcloaks.

1. The Stormcloaks don't allow Khajiit in the city.

First of all, the Nords as a whole don't let the caravans in cities because they have a reputation of selling skooma, moonsugar, and thieving. I can't prove that they steal, but anyone can go up to them and see that they sell skooma and moonsugar, and if you listen, they can be heard among themselves complaining about "shakes" from not having any moonsugar. So on top of dealing, they also are users.

2. "Skyrim belongs to the Nords!"

All Nords say this battlecry. Even the Nords in the legion. It is a generic cry that can be heard from all nord npc's and should not be taken as racist. Nords as a whole are actually Nationalist and Xenophobic. Meaning they take great pride in their heretical history and background, and they are distrusting of outsiders. Not certain races, but outsiders. Even as a nord, the player can sometimes have a stormcloak in Windhelm say "You better not be an Imperial spy!" Now, some Nords are clearly racist, but this should not be generalised to all. Xenophobia and Nationalism are regulalry mistaken for racism.

3. Stormcloaks hate all elves

This is the easiest to debunk. Firstly, there is a difference between racism and prejudice. If the Stormcloaks truly hated all elves, why are there not one, not two, not three, but four Altmer npcs in the city who are not only not in the grey quarters, but are merchants? One of them says the Dunmer have themselves to blame because they are not willing to do what it takes to gain the nord's respect. Some of the Dunmer are though, as one from house Hlaalu owns a farm, and the other works on the farm and clearly dislikes the complaining his people does ans he refers to his brother saying he'd rather work than to "harp on about injustices" like his brother. Keep in mind that the Dunmer even has Nords in Windhelm working for him! Now, like I said, the Nords do have some racist people like the two in the front when you first walk into Windhelm, and the dock worker who has Argonian workers, but the Stormcloak's agenda is not a racist one, although they of course have some bad apples.

Moving on to Ulfric himself, a lot of the points previously described can be applied to his so called "racism" as well. First, Ulfric did not segregate the Dunmer, the High King during the time of the Red Mountain exploding did.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Decree_of_Monument

"Let it stand in honor of those who had the strength and spirit to accept Skyrim's Offer "untithed to any thane or http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hold, and self-governed, with free worship, with no compensation to Skyrim or the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Empire except as writ in the Armistice of old wheresoever those might still apply, and henceforth let no Man or http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mer say that the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Nord are without mercy or honor."

This shows that Ulfric has these elves in his city, and they don't have to pay taxes, and they are supposed to be self governed. Yet they were still allowed in the city, which Ulfric still lets them stay, and they don't have to give the Nords squat in return. The poor nords in the city aren't even given free room and board.

Edit: Some game dialogue reveals that the Dunmer possibly do actually pay taxes, so this deal may have been altered over time. I'm leaving this section in in case this is only taxes from businesses, since the Dunmer in question is a business owner. At any rate, the Dunmer were given a place to stay, and originally did not pay taxes, and originally didn't have to give the Nords anything, and they let the Grey Quarter go to crap with the oppertunity.

Here's a good argument against this that suggests the Dunmer do not in fact pay taxes.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1457178-what-is-your-opinion-on-the-dunmer-of-windhelm/?p=22588230


Ulfric wouldn't allow Altmer in his city when he was tortured by the Thalmor if he hated elves, and he wouldn't allow Dark Elves to work in the market or own farmland if he was racist or prejudiced either. Now, one good point some people have brought up is his segregation of Argonians out of the city. The definition of racism is in fact discrimination of a race, but he is segregating them because of their people's history with the Dark elves, not because of some prejudice against them or a belief about their race. The Argonians are known for being suddenly overtaken by the hist. This is what happened when the Argonians attacked Morowind, presumably out of revenge for their slavery in Morrowind. Ulfric is in the middle of a civil war, and would be a fool to take chances of increasing civil unrest, especially if it could get violent. The Empire could easily take advantage of that with riots in the streets if this were to actually happen.



Also keep in mind that Ulfric says nothing racist or prejudiced, and there's no actual evidence of his racism or prejudice anywhere.

Ulfric is a Power-Hungry Barbarian, The “Ulfric murdered the High King”-argument, and The issue of Ulfric killing Torygg instead of talking to him.

An argument that is commonly defended is that Ulfric is power hungry and a savage. To those who say he's power hungry, you're right. Congradulations. But is that a bad thing? I assume when people say this, they mean that he is power hungry for the sake of power alone. That is false. He wants power so that he can do what his supporters want him to, which is to save Skyrim from the Empire's influence and restore Talos worship. Don't believe me? Does this sound like the words of one who fights for the sake of having power alone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A_5kBJduIg

For those of you who say he's just acting...come on, really? In his palace with the grand total of one stranger? No.

People also say him killing Torygg is proof of his hunger for power, because his court mage says he was a fan of him, and he agreed with what Ulfric was saying, and Ulfric should have talked to him first. Do you see the contradiction? Torygg's court wizard says Torygg knew of his agenda, and Ulfric stated them at the last moot to the point to where he spoke just shy of treason. Torygg, the High King of Skyrim should have said something then if he agreed. And they say he should have asked Torygg one last time before he issued his challenge, but from Ulfric's perspective this would have been stupid. He's in the middle of the Imperial seat of power in Skyrim at the mercy of the Emperor's greatest Skyrim supporter who swore an oath to him, and showed no evidence of agreeing with Ulfric at the moot, and Ulfric is supposed to risk being arrested for treason in the belly of the beast?

A counter argument to this is he just killed the High King, so obviously he didn't care about that to begin with. This is wrong, because Ulfric challenged him to a legal duel according to Skyrim's laws and would not have been arrested. A duel is a part of Nord politics, and after a duel is won, if the High King is dead, they have another moot, and pick a new High King. People say it is an outdated law, but Torygg agreed to the duel, so clearly the law is still in place. It was only an issue after the Empire came in and said it was illegal acording to Imperial law. So Ulfric went in knowing that he wouldn't be arrested for challenging the King to a duel. This is a political checkmate. Either Torygg agrees to the duel and he wins, and a moot is held, which Ulfric would have won due to being the winner, since Elisif likely would back down out of fear to him, or Torygg doesn't accept, and Ulfric has a good chance of winning due to Torygg looking weak. Either way if the Empire did not interfere, Ulfric may very well have been the new High King.

This does not sound like the workings of a savage to me. It sounds like one who knows his people's politics and knew how to play them well. People may think he's savage only because of the nature of the Nordic politics, which is outdated compared to non combat loving countries. Ulfric can't be held accountable for playing the politics. He didn't make the rules. And as said before, Ulfric did not murder the High King, he fought Torygg in a duel. Whether you think it was dishonorable or what have you is a different issue. Torygg knew that Ulfric had the Thu'um, and accepted the fight anyway. He also knew he was a seasoned warrior, and likely still would have lost the fight. To Nords, a duel to the death even with the thu'um that is revered in their culture is not dishonorable or cowardly. His use of the thu'um simply shows he was the stronger. Whether you believe that or not isn't the point. The Nords do.

Also: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1454121-can-stormcloak-people-explaine-this-to-me/?p=22498185


Indeed. Which means Ulfric would have wasted his time talking further, and he made the right call.


Another piece of evidence against Ulfric is "The Bear of Markarth". http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Bear_of_Markarth

First, this book, while obvious propaganda to make Ulfric look very bad is filled with holes.

The prisoners don't even say Ulfric's name in Markarth, and as Tdroid said, the Jarl contradicts this book and even says he's the one who caused all this.


http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1450288-stormcloak-imperial-or-thalmor-no3/?p=22397367


And speaking of Markarth, for people saying Ulfric started the whole Talos ban enforcement because of the Markarth incident, you're wrong. Talk to the Jarl. He admits he came to Ulfric and asked for his assistance, and he offered HIM Talos worship, not the other way around. And when the Thalmor found out, Ulfric was left holding the bag.

“Ulfric misused the Voice”

This point is irrelevant, as the only people who follow this are the Grey Beards, and Ulfric who was training to be one was taken as a child to be one. While he does not seem to resent the Grey Beards for this, it still shows that he can't be held accountable for an oath he didn't willfully make. It is however possible that he was willing to make the oath, but he was still a child, and this was before his home was in turmoil. The Thu'um is clearly a weapon meant to be used. In the Nord pantheon, Kynareth, or Kyne to the Nords is a warrior goddess:

Jump to: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Kyne#column-one, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Kyne#searchInput
Kyne (Kiss At The End), or Kaan in the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Language, is the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nord goddess of the Storm, widow of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shor, Warrior-Wife, and a favored god of warriors

Why would a warrior goddess give the Nords a power that is clearly meant as a weapon to be passive? Jurgen Windcaller only suddenly "realised this" after the Dunmer whooped him silly, then forced other Thu'umers into his way of thinking, claiming the gods punished them for their misuse of the Thu'um. This is a clear case of "Hurtfeelioma". Even with using the Thu'um, Ulfric still says he doesn't use it lightly. Ulfric did not misuse the thu'um. The Grey Beards say otherwise, but Arngeir also thinks you're wrong for using Dragonrend on Alduin to save the world.

The “Trade being hurt”

Trade at first will possibly be hurt, as the court wizard of Solitude says, but it will most likely pick up again, if it even drops at all. Why?

1. The trade between the two, namely Cyrodiil and Windhelm is just too important. Both provinces will need to keep up trade, because both are dependent on resources from eachother, and both need to rebuild, especially the Empire. They can't afford to cut themselves off of Skyrim's resources.

2. The East Empire Trading Company still opperates out of Windhelm. If trade was going to be an issue, why would they still work with the rebels and trade? Either the Company despite its leaders being originally appointed by the Emperor doesn't listen to the Empire, or the Empire simply can't afford to hault trade, and neither can Skyrim.

So because of these two reasons, it seems highly unlikely that trade will cease with Skyrim. Maybe it will deteriorate temporarily, but it is doubtful. Especially when the two are in war prep for the next Great War against the Thalmor.

My two cents.

ColonelKillaBee. Great post.

Makes no difference. The elves win in the end.

You couldnt be any more wrong.
The Sload invade Tamriel and they win.

Really? The guy (or girl) was asking why their character would side with either or. Do you have a 'Bear Signal' that shines out your window every time someone posts something even tangentially related to the civil war? It's getting excessive brother.

For someone who is only playing a Breton (the only real Bretons are from Brittany in France) , a race inclined towards politics, should realize that High Rock security interests are involved in the Skyrim Civil War and would act in favor of High Rock interests. Stormcloak victory means High Rock gets cut off from Cyrodiil, with all that entails.

@OP Play as whatever you wish. Your play through is not official canon and really only matters to you.

Nope. But I can smell a milkdrinker from a mile away. Comes in handy since a mile is usually how far away they run when they see us coming.

My views are simple really. I believe that the Empire has a much larger chance of defeating and ending the Thalmor threat than the Stormcloaks.

The Stormcloak cause is very noble, I like it. I want to be a part of it. But I won't and can't unless Ulfric is out of the picture. I don't like him or any of the Jarls that remain in power or are put it. They are definitely the worst bunch.

Calling people milk drinkers now? Because of a game. You sure that's wise? You're treading on internet gangster territory buddy. Should I hide from your battle axe too? LOL. This is getting ridiculous.