There is an usual poll topic over here: which of TES game is the best? Is MW superior to Oblivion?...
Each time, the debate is biased because of the huge technological changes from Arena time to Oblivion one, as the one in the means Bethesda had to make its games. I think Arena team was much less numerous and had much, much and even much less money to make its game than Oblivion one.

Now, imagine you may choose the core team of one of previous TES and give it the money and technology to make next TES (including hiring bunches of people to work with them), which one would you pick? Which one do you think will be the more innovative, produce to best gameplay, the more interesting background and story?

Morrowind was so good even with the odd combat that that dev team would make a great game

Remember that you should stick more to game background, design philosophy and creativity than a straight technological comparaison. DF devs didn't do a worst 3d environnement because they were worst programmers, but because 3d engines and computers of their time were less powerfull.

We should also try to visualise how those devs would have used present technologies to materialize their ideas. What DF design would look like with the technology and the amount of work putted in Oblivion?

Which of those games had to more developped and interesting dialogs, plot and storytelling structure? Which one did set the better balance between player twitching and role playing skills?

Which one did have the most intersting setting, background?

The principle is to forgot about the technological limits of past game times and imagine what those design ideas may have resulted in with modern tech. Symetrically, what do you think would be Oblivion value with Arena engine and interface?

Ok here is my team:

Ken Rolsten on game play design and mechanics
Michael Kirkbride and Ted Peterson on story development and design
Mark Jones in charge of artwork
And whoever did Daggerfalls music, don't remember his name.

And then of course all the other people they need to actually do everything.

You mean the guy who does Casino music now?

New one... It's nice to see a change....

well i picked morrowind's team but i haven't played daggerfall and a lot of people seem to like that so maybe people from both

This is my dream team.

Morrowind team is what I put. Lots of MK, lots of Ted, Ken Rolsten....ditch Todd......
Although, if Shivering Isles is any semblance of TES V, then we should be fine. I haven't played Shivering Isles, but it sounds very very well done.

MK and Tedders battle for control and try to outdo the other's writing until they both pass out.

Good, the more they battle the more and better texts we get to pour over.

The Oblivion team. The team that made sure to actually playtest their game sufficiently that

A. Players wouldn't fall through walls.
B. Quest items wouldn't dissapear.
C. Trees didn't hover above the ground.
D. Scripts intended for the final boss actually worked.

It is. If that's what the writing in TESV will be like, then I'll be happy. Er, I mean, I don't want all the characters to be insane, but I'm talking about the lore and stuff.

I say either the OB team or a new team. Comprised of demi-gods, of course.

Those finishing touch and bug removal is typically a matter of means and team size. I'm sure that if DF team was as big as Oblivion team, with as much cash, they would probably have chased the bug much more than what they did. By the old times of TES, Bethesda was a very secondary game developer.

Again, do not be fooled by technical improvement of the serie over time. The question is about which team was the most creative and may produce the most innovative and interesting TES if it was given the command for TES V devellopement.

I think MW team introduced some real originality in the background and esthetics, but I think the core lore was there since DF and that the RPG rule set, dialog system, world size, openendedness and freedom in this game is still unmatched by newer TES.

Just snippets from the game credits. As you can see, Morrowind and Oblivion pretty much had the same "core" team. And Arena & Daggerfall shared a lot of people aswell.

Arena

Project Leader: Julian Lefay
Lead Design: Vijay Lakshman
Design: Ted Peterson
Lead Programming: Julian Lefay
Graphics: Bryan Bossart, Kenneth Lee Mayfield, Jeff Perryman
Music: Eric Heberling

Daggerfall

Project Leader: Julian Lefay
Lead Programming: Hal Bouma, Julian Lefay
Design: Julian Lefay, Bruce Nesmith, Ted Peterson
Additional Design: Todd Howard, Kurt Kuhlmann
Graphics: Ryan Chapin, Mark Jones, Don Nalezyty, Hoang Nguyen, Louise Sandoval
Music: Eric Heberling

Battlespire

Project Leader: Julian Lefay
Lead Programming: Julian Lefay
Graphics: Richard Guy, Mark Jones, Gary L. Noonan, Louise Sandoval
Design and Dialogue: Daniel Greenberg, Richard Guy, Julian Lefay
Level Design: Richard Guy, Gary L. Noonan

Redguard

Project Leader: Todd Howard
Lead Programmer: Andrew Taylor
Lead Artist: John Pearson
World Art: Jimmy Alam, Sean Conlon, Todd Howard, Michael Kirkbride, Kurt Kuhlmann, Don Nalezyty
Additional Programming: Guy Carver, Marvin Herbold, Paul Hoggart, Morten M?rup, Peter Sundholm, Craig Walton
Editing: Ken Rolston
Design and Writing: Todd Howard, Michael Kirkbride, Kurt Kuhlmann
Music: Chip Ellinghaus, Grant Slawson

Morrowind

Project Leader: Todd Howard
Lead Designer: Ken Rolston
Lead Programmer: Craig Walton, Guy Carver
Lead Artist: Matthew Carofano
Lead Character Artist: Christiane Meister
Music: Jeremy Soule
Writing & Quest Design: Douglas Goodall, Mark E. Nelson, Ken Rolston
Additional Writing & Quest Design: Bill Burcham, Todd Howard, Michael Kirkbride, Ted Peterson, Todd Vaughn
Bloodmoon Quest Design: Emil Pagliarulo

Oblivion

Project Leader: Todd Howard
Lead Designer: Ken Rolston
Lead Programmers: Guy Carver, Craig Walton
Lead Artist: Matthew Carofano
Lead Character Artist: Christiane Meister
Lead Dungeon Artist: Istvan Pely
Music: Jeremy Soule
Additional Writing: Ted Peterson, Michael Kirkbride
Quest Design: Brian Chapin, Kurt Kuhlmann, Alan Nanes, Mark E. Nelson, Bruce Nesmith, Emil Pagliarulo

Uhhh ... if you ditch Todd, you ditch The Elder Scrolls! He's been there since Redguard. Plus, he's cute!

Shivering Isles is awesome.



Very interesting to see it lined up like that.

My "dream team" would be the current team + Ken Rolston + Michael Kirkbride.

I think I prefere the times of Julian Lefay than the ones of Todd Howard.
The serie has shifted to adventure gameplay since Redguard.
In a RGP you should find your own path, not follow the pre scripted one. Since MW, there is no more major choice in TES.

It is also interesting to compare the evolution between TES I and II, that shared merely the same team, and the evolution from TES III to IV. Everybody can attest that TES greatly improved from Arena to DF. It was a huge leap, an improvement on all sides of the game. On the other hand, many dedicated fans of MW were not that satisfied by Oblivion evolution, and even the brand new technology was often not enought to mask a general simplification, dumbing down, and mainstreaming of the background.

So I still consider that I would be more confident if TES I and II team was leading next TES, than the TES III and IV one. The first learnt alot and improved everything. The second went mainstream and dumbed down the serie.

We would call it the Fall of the Usurper, the games haven't been the same since he got there.

I say the best team would be to grab everyone in the suggestions thread. Then again, we don't know if anyone there can do the marketing, the scripting, ect and it might end up looking like Arena again, but the ideas would rock.

Including the multiplayer and the introduction of regular short beardy dwarves?

We'll choose the project lead by fighting to the death in an arena. We'll just have to hope people suggesting those things feel like fighting. :chaos:

Nooooooo, Todd's awesome.

Eek! A moderator used improper grammar, and even worse! It's not even a word.

I doubt that Lefay will be back to bring TES to their original tradition, but I can only hope that someone will replace Todd, and move-on from DF-MW-Ob dumbing down trend.

As I said, I still think that Arena and DF original design idea was great and should produce a great game with modern days technology. But even if TES do not go back that way, I really disliked the way Todd brought it. The adventure/action game drift at the expanse of RPGing is not corresponding to my tastes. So, as MW marked a clear cut in the serie tradition, I hope next TES will do so (hoping it will not be to make a kind a dark messiah of TES! ).

I don't ever see what kind of cut you really talk about in relation to Morrowind. Compared to Daggerfall, it was an equally deep game, expanded on the lore great amounts, and did what I have YET to see any of the other games do: practically flawlessly implement the lore into the game world.
Besides, everyone knows the best way to make TES V is a combination of Daggerfall random generation and Morrowind static creation!
Also: We need Ken Rolston back, and in a major role. He played a minor role in Oblivion's development and I feel they took a hit for that. He seemed to be a bit disappointed in the game when I read his interview.

Ted Peterson, Kurt Kuhlman, Michael Kirkbride, Todd Howard.

:bowdown:

MW was a cut because :
-there was no more choice in the story line, no more alternative path. That was a big drift from role playing, where you are supposed to be able to act differently in front of a same event, to achieve sometime different results. MW had one path and one way to do it : one role, and a role you didn't really had to guess (most of the time dialogs were made of one obviously bad dialog choice, a neutral one, and an obviously appropriate one.
-It was a cut because it simplified the rule set instead of repairing its flaws. DF rule set was too ambitious, because it included many skills and options that finally were either underused or unused during the game. Instead of giving them a meaning or rebalancing them, most of the skills unused were removed. The skill set focused more and more of combat oriented skills at the expanse of lore and social skills.
-It was a cut because the game was no more of epic and realistic scale. DF had a profusing population and really big cities. You fell it was like a living world to explore. The use of random/procedurally generated quests was also expanding adventuring greatly and gave the feeling that events were hapening and that the world was persistant. In MW and Oblivion, there is a strict limited number of quests, and once you burnt them, there is just a place empty of any events, any interest left.

MW introduced some exotism and really moved from the first TES generic medieval fantasy setting, which was back in an even less original form in Oblivion with its obviously LOTR inspired esthetics. MW introduced some more interesting outdoors, but at such a ridiculous scale that exploration was still as uninteresting and challenging as in DF. Exploration/survival gameplay was still undeveloped, which also reduced the challenge of exploration.

But, I agree with you, the best for next TES would be a combo of DF (which also had some handmade elements) RPG and world design and MW original and well developed setting and background, the whole powered by up to date technologies.