In ''The Ultimate Heist'' when you sit down on the chair, the blind monk tells you ''Celia Camoran, I present you the Elder Scroll''. I checked on UESPWiki and didn't find anything about her. Is she related to Mankar Camoran, is there anything about her?

She may be related to Mankar Camoran, it is an ancient dynasty, probably with some Septim relations if it is anything like the Ra'athim or Direnni, but there is no reference to her in the game other than in that quest.

The Camoran dynasty led a large war against the Septim dynasty, led by Mankar's father, known as the Camoran Usurper, and Mankar's mother was a Bosmer. The Camoran in this quest may be her, as the name doesn't sound like that of an Altmer. However, the war was quite a while ago and Bosmer only last a few hundred years, whilst Altmer and Dunmer can last for almost a thousand (or, with magic, over four thousand).

Unless she exists, it may have been an alias prepared by the Gray Fox for you to procure the Elder Scroll.

This needs to be moved to the Spoilers forum, it's a giant spoiler right there.

I don't think there is any lore reference to Celia Camoran.

It seems that she is a character made up by the Gray Fox and passed to the Blind Moth people to allow you to complete the Ultimate hiest. I don't think there is a reference to Celia actually existing. But Camoran implies a noble line, perhaps deemed worth of viewing an Elder Scroll.

I do believe that the Bosmer in the Refugees was not Haymon's wife, cause it says something like she is his concubine or something.

Personally, I believe it's just a coincidence.

This. Unless the Gray Fox disposed of Celia and she was actually supposed to meet the monks (which would be beyond him, just look at the Thieves' Guild rules), it is an alias, because he set up the meeting.

I doubt she is an important character in TES. She's probably just a made-up character for the quest and her sharing the same last name with Mankar is probably just a coincidence.

No way her last name being Camoran is a coincidence. She most likely has some relation to Mankar, but is not really important.

Did you guys read what I said? Either she was murdered or she doesn't exist.

My guess would be that Celia Camoran is a real person, and probably is part of the Camoran Dynasty.

Think about it this way, these are the actual Elder Scrolls we're talking about here; they probably don't hand them over to just any old schmuck off the street who asks for them. They're probably only available to the likes of the nobility, and some prominent sages. The Camorans are part of the nobility of Valenwood, and thus could get access to the Scrolls, but Valenwood is far enough away that the theft wouldn't be recognized as such for some time.

You've said that once already. There are other theories, can we suggest them?

And the Grey Fox was getting rid of a lot of the Thieves Guild rules, and in that quest you could actually murder anyone you wanted. He may have murdered Camoran, which would mean she existed. It's more possible that she arrived before she was supposed to, as the thief, of course, and by the time she arrives from Valenwood there's nothing anyone can do about the stolen items.

A saliant quote by one Gray Fox: "I arranged for the notable Celia Camoran to want to read a particular Elder Scroll. Don't ask how. However, she will be... unavoidably detained. You will take her place. Do not speak to the priests. They are blindfolded and will not realize it isn't her unless you speak. As the guildmaster, I am waiving bloodprice for anyone you kill during this heist. However, I can't stop the Watch from putting a price on your head."

My bet is that she is a member of the Camoran royal family. Seriously, you'd think with the way people talk that the entire court of Valenwood is just itching to invade and take over the rest of the world, instead of just the two members that turned into maniacal Ayleidophiles. Also my guess is that he forged all of the documents. He IS an accomplished forger after all.

I can't think why the Grey Fox would lie to you and invent a fake name.


The "notable" bit before her name suggests she is very well-known. I doubt the Moth Priests would let a nobody borrow one of their treasured Elder Scrolls, so they must recognise her as a person of power and status within the Empire. And of course they even expected her to just stroll right into White Gold Tower . . . a place off-limits to everyone except for the Emperor and Elder Council.

Perhaps Celia is even supposed to be a member of the Council? Chancellor Ocato tells you that most of the Elder Council members have returned to the provinces, except for a small inner core group who have remained in the IC to manage the Empire. So Celia could be one of these shadowy missing figures in the government.
Of course you can only guess. Who knows what the devs had in mind when the made up that line.
Later in that same quest the Countess of Anvil threatens to report the Gray Fox to the Emperor himself . . . which is pretty odd, since the Emperor is now long dead.

Speaking of the Camorans, is Mankar's wife ever named, the mother of his two children?

Or maybe he simply did something in order for her to be able to go to the meeting. I'm pretty sure he didn't murder her. I also severly doubt it is a coincidence she is named Camoran.

I'm for the theory on her being part of the council, the name suggests a status high enough, she obviously exists, since the moth priests allowed her to enter and the gray fox saif she was detained, it is likely that these things were arranged much before the heist was give to the player, so that the meeting may be properly ordained and such.

I don't think he'd have the means to come up with some "alias" for reading an elder scroll. She's probably a member of the royal Camorans at the very least. Maybe he's off intentionally botching an attempt to steal her jewels while the player takes her place.

Well then, clearly you have the last word on that. :rolleyes:

It isn't possible that she doesn't exist. The Moth Priests don't let just anybody in to look at an Elder Scroll. Clearly she was an individual of some importance.

She could have been murdered, but I find that unlikely. Most likely he simply had her kidnapped, then released her the moment he was sure the scroll had been obtained. It doesn't matter what she does after that, who she tells, what the Moth Priests find out, so long as he has the scroll.

Yeah we saw what you said, and so what? You are not correct and neither is anybody else. So don't act as if what you say is what is definitely right. Let others share their opinions on the matter.

Thanks.

Camoran is a combination name and title, like "Caesar" in Rome. Bosmer who achieve power rename themselves Camoran, including Haymon the Camoran Usurper. It's therefore no indication of blood relation.

He was called a usurper because he rose against the Septims, not because he wanted to rule Valenwood (if he wanted to rule Valenwood, why didn't he just give up when he conquered it)? If not, then it doesn't mean that there isn't a blood relation - a noble is always more likely to rebel than a peasant, and they're the only ones truly capable of leading, anyway, in a largely uneducated society.

He's not called the Usurper because he fought against the Septims, he's called the Usurper because he usurped the Camoran throne from his brother.

I assumed that he created them ala Divayth Fyr except with OBLIVIONIC MAGIC!

Wouldn't that mean his children are half-daedra?

Perhaps, but I'd lean to say 'no' on that because using OBLIVIONIC MAGIC! to create something doesn't necessarily impart some Daedric essence to the created.