(Sorry for no poll, i am on a iphone and can't access one)

Tell us who you picked, and WHY.
I have yet to choose a side, just wondering
;)

Empire. Helping the stormcloaks helps the thalmor.

Cloaks all the way.

Why? I am a true son of skyrim.

The first time I joined the Legion was because I immediately recognized some nasty real-world rhetoric from the way the Stormcloaks talked, and I had long since given up the notion that every freedom fighter has a just cause, or that independence is by itself a good thing.

The dossier on Ulfric says that a Stormcloak victory would harm the Thalmor.

It's the war itself that helps them. As long as both sides are fighting the Thalmor has a land ripe for taking.

If Skyrim unites under the stormcloaks they'll be a threat the Thalmor will think twice about.

The Empire all the way.

Legion, and I just completed the story-line yesterday, and I must say I enjoyed every minute of it.

Stormcloaks are a tad racist but they are not homicidal toward other races. They just feel better than them. This is wrong, but they aren't the ones who are rounding up people for torture and execution for practicing their religion. Thalmor are nazis and the Empire is letting them get away with it. Do they like it? No. Can they stop it? No. But that means the empire has failed and NEEDS to fall. It's time for a change. If other nations see the Nords succeed in taking down the empire and driving out the Thalmor, they will follow their example.

Empires fall but nations endure. It's time for the people to be governed by themselves, not some puppet pulling the strings and having his own pulled in kind.

Stormcloaks have the coolest characters and make it fun to kill the Imperials.

A handy Iphone tip, you can select to see the actual site by a little "see full site" button at the bottom of the page, afterward, you can switch it back to the IP Mobile version


OT - I already did the Legion and am now doing the Stormcloaks. Lorewise, I side with Ulfric.

I was giving the OP my initial reactions... any serious discussion as to the merits and issues with both factions is best dealt with in the Spoiler section.

However, I can address a few non-spoiler arguments. For instance, other nations have already risen up against the Empire. The in-game Lore is rather specific about the Empire being on its last legs. Valenwood was won by the Thalmor via insurrection early on. Argonia also separated due to Thalmor interference, but the lizard-folk didn't fall to their sway either. Elsweyr has joined the Aldmeri Dominion as a pair of client states. Morrowind was almost entirely destroyed by a natural disaster. Hammerfell split with the Empire at the signing of the White-Gold Concordat. Skyrim and High Rock are all that are left of the Empire's non-Cyrodiil provinces. There is no inspiring change that will take place if Skyrim were to join them. Instead it would be a powerful symbol of disunity.

I find the idea that an Empire must fall, and that all the blood shed by its destruction is somehow justified, to be abhorrent. It might be hard to see given how abstract the gameworld is, but people who only wanted to live in peace had their lives ruined because some people decided that this Empire had to die. Not even an attempt at reform, no, but immediately a charge for bloodshed and chaos. That is not a cause I can get behind.

EDIT: Was it just my imagination, or was this is general just a while ago? 24 hours of no sleep is messing with my head.

I picked the Empire initially, because I was new to the game and not really versed in the lore and characters, so I was working under the "Ulfric is evil and racist and supports the Thalmor!!!" assumptions that ended up being BS. Once I finished that line I really felt like I had done the wrong thing. So I made a new character and went with the Stormcloaks, and instantly liked it better. Not that it paints Ulfric as a saint, you find out even more about him that's shady, but it was just more fun and Ulfric is an interesting character. The Empire's storyline is dull. Also, the charges that Ulfric is racist are stupid because the Empire is just as bad, as anyone who's ever played another ES games should know. No matter who you join, you're supporting racists.

And for those that say that the civil war benefits the Thalmor, there's an easy solution: Do the Stormcloak questline really fast.

I did the Stormcloaks, only because I'm a Bosmer and wanted to see if there were dialogue differences for a non-Nord.

:rolleyes:

Are you trying to convince the rest of us, or yourself?

Non-Imperial, Non-Human civil leaders vs. rampant policies targeting non-Nords and failure to act in the defense of those people. Oblivion had, what, an insane countess in Leyawiin? Comparatively it's ridiculous for you to place the two on the same level.

The Empire is dwindling. Skyrim will persevere, one way or another. I find the answer to be rather obvious. Eventually, the Imperials will be limited to their own portion of Tamriel, as it should be.

Stormcloaks, since I'm a nord. But I plan on being an Orc in my next play through, and then I'll be an imperial.

Did you play Morrowind? You know, when the Dark Elves sanctioned by the empire ENSLAVED the beast races? The entire current conflict between the Dunmer and the Argonians is the result of the attempted genocide and horrible treatment of the Argonians by the Dunmer. There's a reason that the Black Marsh and Elseweyr were the first to leave the Empire.

And let's not forget the Argonian torture chamber in the basemant of Castle Leyawiin. I guess that's not so bad, according to you. Ulfric doesn't even say a single racist or prejudiced thing against another race throughout the entire game.

...



Autonomous province decides to use its freedom for slavery. A perfect example of why independence != good.



I specifically mentioned the crazy countess in Leyawiin :facepalm:

What she's doing is illegal... if you couldn't tell.

Well, it's okay if you guys have slaves. Just as long as you dont' try to worship Talos. Oh, and Argonian torture chambers are just fine.

... I am dumbstruck by the number of mental hoops you had to leap through to come to that conclusion. Yes, illegal Argonian torture chambers are just fine, that's my argument.

... Wow.

I was being sarcastic. I'm saying that the empire has racist people in power, such as the ones who allow slavery and torture argonians. You posted a quote that confirmed what I said. I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Note that I've never said that Skyrim is NOT racist. I'm saying that every side has shady dealings with it comes to race.

Empire: Has condoned slavery in order to get the support of Morrowind, treated the beastfolk as second-class citizens, at least one example of an argonian torture chamber by a Count appointed by the Empire.

Stormcloaks: Obvious sentiment that Skyrim belongs to the Nords and that other races are welcome, the expulsion of the Argonians from Windhelm, Khajiits from every hold, the regulation of Dark Elves to a slum in Windhelm. And probably other stuff I can't think of off the top of my head.

Your example is an evil person in power. Yes, those exist, that was never in question and it's silly to bring up. You're conflating an overall policy and attitude with particular people, who are resorting to illegal methods to inflict their racial hatreds on others, to a faction which as a general policy is either xenophobic or implements outright racist policies. I'm not even under the illusion that the Empire is perfectly cosmopolitan but equivocating them with how Ulfric's Stormcloaks react to other races is... dishonest to say the least. You could have had a leg to stand on if you argued that the Empire wasn't perfect, but instead you argued that it was the same, and that the difference between them and the Stormcloak approach didn't matter. That... is simply wrong.

Actually, I am not arguing that the Empire is evil at all. I LIKE the Empire. I joined them first. And morally, I think that Empire has a higher leg to stand on than Skyrim. I really do. Ulfric did some terrible things, mainly the murder of King Torygg in what was NOT a fair fight, questionable dealings with the Thalmor, and questionable activities concerning natives of the Reach. He also at least silently condones racist practices in Stormwind. These are his major faults.

Nowhere have I said that the Empire is evil. I just said that there IS racism in the Empire, and it HAS extended to the highest levels of government. Your problem is you put words in my mouth and assumed that I viewed the Empire as some great evil when I don't. I think that it is perfectly logical for people to prefer the Empire. But in the end, I feel that the Stormcloaks' side has a better story and is more fun, so I play it. I just feel that if your sole argument against Ulfric is he's racist or his soldiers are racist, you might want to pay attention to the lore. Let's face is, the beast races in Oblivion were only tolerated, not welcomed or loved. And now that they are no longer part of the Empire? It's only going to get worse.

Now where did I say your argument was the Empire being evil? Hmm, something about putting words in peoples' mouths. The issue we were talking about is whether the Empire is racist or not. In that, obviously they wouldn't be perfect and there would be racists within it. It would be unbelievable if there weren't. You're equivocating the two when they're very far apart. That is where I called your anolysis into question.

Having nordic blood i choose a nord and fought with my brothers. having said that.. the stormcloaks are opportunists who saw a weak empire and took advantage of it. The Imperia and Thalmerl presence/oppression in Skyrim was very weak, untill the rebellion.