Arena, Daggerfall, and Redguard's introductions opened as if the stories themselves were being read from the Elder Scrolls by a person in the future. Each one could essentially be seen as, well, the CD. This could be taken to another level with the possiblities, in the same regard that the Elder Scrolls are difficult to decipher and may have multiple interpretations.

Man, that was pretty deep, Nalion. Good thing I just ate a Whopper to satisfy my hunger so that my brain can concentrate.
Are you insinuating that the random dialogue that is the same no matter where you go and bugs of the game mechanics can be interpreted as CHIM? I don't get what you're saying in that paragraph.

By the way, how do you pronounce CHIM? And why is it in all caps?

KIM. Cue mind-[censored].

CHIM is from Aldmeris (Ehlnofex), the language of the Aldmer. It's written in all caps.

No, you're heading in the wrong direction. As I said, you need to realize the world as it is (not as you think it is). The occasions I described are much more instances where ruling kings (36 Sermons) should ask themselves whether what they experience actually is possible in the world they perceive. Things where perceptive people go "Huh, by all rights, THAT shouldn't have happened...!?"
Simplified example: in a flat world (perceived as flat), surrounding the world should not be possible. Therefore, if the world can be surrounded, "the world is flat" should be reconsidered.

Those who can identify and follow such considerations as above are able to realize the world for what it is (being able to become a ruling king). The others will still talk about how ugly mudcrabs are for the n-th time that same day.

In other words (condensed from http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/vehk_teaching.shtml). Realize the world, know what the world truly is and don't be influenced by what the world tries to offer you for "real" (limitations), and realize your place in it.

See, this is the part of the CHIM conversations where people start falling asleep.

I kid, I kid.

I come to wake you. :liplick:

No, falsification even, and as a demonstration I shall relay to you the true secret of CHIM which others hide and when I have finished you will still not have achieved it, at least, not yet. Prepare. to. have. your. mind. blown! :nope:

So come, sit as kittens around a barber and embrace the truth which only the duckies may tell, through citation as has not seen the forums since the dawn of the FSG as seen through http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/vehk_teaching.shtml which will both serve to break down and mend the fourth wall:

What is "chim"?

From the Ehlnofex: an ancient sigil connoting 'royalty', 'starlight', and 'high splendor'. As with most characters of that dangerous language, the sigil CHIM constantly distorts itself. Those scholars that can perceive its shape regard it as a Crowned Tower that threatens to break apart at the slightest break in concentration...

To transcend mortal boundaries set in place by immortal rulers. At its simplest, the state of chim provides an escape from all known laws of the divine worlds and the corruptions of the black sea of Oblivion. It is a return to the first brush of Anu-Padomay, where stasis and change created possibility. Moreso, it the essence needed to hold that 'dawning' together without disaster. One that knows CHIM observes the Tower without fear. Moreso: he resides within...

The world you stand on is said to be the first attempt at chim. It is also admittedly the most famous. That it was choreographed by Lorkhan and ultimately failed is well-documented, but whether or not this failure was intentional is still disputed.

Wait. Why would anyone want to purposely fail the process of CHIM?

And this is the most-reached destination of all that embark upon this road. Why would Lorkhan and his (unwitting?) agents sabotage their experiments with the Tower? Why would he crumble that which he esteems?

Perhaps he failed so you might know how not to.

Here, is plainly stated what CHIM is. CHIM is the state of play, or imagination within your given medium (game, book, etc), in which you if for only a moment accept the game-world around you as real and your character as true avatar of yourself, the ultimate enemy of which is the evil box which states "You have discovered Bob's Eggshack" and "You have reached Level 25". This is an experience which is constantly distorting itself due the medium of play or the given circumstance within the game. How many times throughout your gameplay do you truly accept that you are in a real world despite knowing that you are in a game-world? And how easily is that mindset broken and how easily does it shatter if you break your concentration and realize that "its just a game".

You see, the explanation of CHIM that "Chim is realizing that your in a game" or that "its the console or TESCS" are not only wrong, they are the opposite of the truth, CHIM is realizing your not in the real world, and believing that the game world is in-fact real. This is why maintaining CHIM is the most important part ("the essence needed to hold that 'dawning' together without disaster"), if you can't maintain that state of roleplay then the world loses its realness and your character is nothing but pixels - what is more of a zero-sum than that? :touched:

You may know that you are simply one Nerevarine amongst hundreds, or one set of pixels amongst and entire game-world godhead, but you are still an individual within the world which in that state of roleplay you have deemed real, at least until a quest box pops up and breaks your immersion (concentration) or you mom yells at you to tell you that supper is ready. And of course, this is not limited to TES, but any such experience.

Why did Lorkhan fail at CHIM, and how does this show us how not to? Lorkhan made the world, and in a world of your own design you can never find this immersion. Don't believe me, open up the TESCS and make your own quests or additions to the world, learn how the mechanics of the game-world work and then try to become truly immersed in the world again. You won't be able to, you'll fail if you make your own world because you'll recognize the parts you made and immediately your immersion and roleplay will break. CHIM is the fragile ability to realize the world as not being a game.

Anybody who says otherwise is either crazy or hates duckies, and really, how can you hate a http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b145/BHenshaw/duck.jpg
Of course, maybe I'm the crazy one, but hey, it makes sense to me.
:woot:

:turtle:

The TESCS thing isn't wrong in the sense that it's not the ONLY way you should look at it, something I've seen several people do and that causes me much chagrin. I especially want to say that because my statements regarding CHIM in a past discussion were misunderstood.

That's not quite the problem as I see it. You are correct, specific mindset IS needed, but that mindset is not necessarily being philosophically engaged, but rather thinking in the same metaphysical manner. Again, you are correct in saying that all of MK's stuff contains variables that can be interpreted in many different ways, but for some reason (paradoxically) there is only one RIGHT interpretation. How can something subjective, something you "feel" have a right and wrong way to "feel"? That's what really bothers me about these forums. Now granted some things are wrong" but the deeper you get into the "gibberish" and such the harder it s to suggest anyone is wrong. So I guess you're right, he's trying to assert what he writes is a story, wth a right and wrong way to look at it, but he's not a good storyteller so instead he writes metaphysics and still expects everyone to treat it like a story when it so clearly is not.

And yes, as I've stated before (and will officially say again), I'm opposed to the way questions are asked here. I know at times I've given cryptic answers too, but I try hard not to because it really does get people frustrated.

Indeed. I always thought it was pronounced like the "chim" in chimney. It's sillier that way, but I associate the "Kim" with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Possible. :nuke:

I think rhyming with "time" would be pretty neat too, although chyme is what you call your food once it's become a liquid mass in your intestines...

That's how I've always pronounced it. :shrug: Sounds good to me!

I'm partial to the CHIM in chymany way as well. What if the C was silent though?

And can't I use the CS to destroy all references of CHIM (and make Cyrodiil a Jungle)? In so far as it is something within the TES universe trying to "extend out" to the player's universe, it can be removed entirely.

Saying that immersion is lost when you come across self-created content a matter of opinion. While the first time, you might go "hmmm, his head doesn't quite suit his personality" or "crap, now her hair clips through her pauldrons" - when you get it right you don't think these things any more (at least, I don't).

The point wasn't that you might not be a very good modder or that you might cause glitches, my point was that regardless of how well you integrate your content that when you're playing you'll still recognize the character or the castle or the item as one that you created and put there, this is completely and utterly unavoidable even if you're better with the CS than all the devs combined. Unless you wipe your memory you will notice is being your content and thereby be reminded that you are in fact in a game. You use immersion too lightly.

But does that mean that Vehk is aware of this world, or that MK is in that one? :prod:

:turtle:

omg shes so hot tho

Your CHIM is ridiculous!

Can I just say that this might be the best CHIM discussion ever. Or at least, the most "discussion-y" of CHIM discussions since Morrowind. I think that someone finally asked the right question to let us NOT have an inflammatory super-degraded CHIM svckfest like these tend to be.

I reminice now about a while ago when people made a mass pronounciation thread, and things went nuts because, seriously, most people say "duhn-mer" and "chim-meney" instead of "doon-MARE" and "Kim" But really, I think that could all be chalked up to local accents and dialects more than actual inconsistency between lore and voice actors.

But, ah, back on topic, CHIM is not silly at all, I just reject it because I personally and on a single-person only basis enjoy TES more when it's one of many conflicting ideas characters have about how the Aurbis works as opposed to fact.

PS: My Muatra is bigger than yours.

Fractals much?

Huh? :blink:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fractal (frāk'təl)
n. A geometric pattern that is repeated at ever smaller scales to produce irregular shapes and surfaces that cannot be represented by classical geometry. Fractals are used especially in computer modeling of irregular patterns and structures in nature.

:thumbsdown:

Please educate us then. I'll admit to laziness regarding not adding clarification.

edit: The gist of what you should get from that is a fractal is something that is repeated at ever smaller scales of equal proportions. I'd implore you to state why you see something is wrong instead of just saying its wrong without clarifying.

What's with your thumbs down emoticon?

Wierd, I thought it was a very good explanation. I would've used the "triforce in a triforce" example personally, but 9-er seemed to hit it on the head if I recall my high school geometry right.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/thumbs+down (thuhmz-doun)
an act or instance of dissent, disapproval, etc.

Thumbs down was me saying the person should have looked it up his/herself. Buuuuuut it was more of an [censored]-ish comment than anything. Sowwy.

...or, I can just continue to do what my half-Breton did: gather herbs, sharpen blades and not give a [censored]