Call it silly, but without CHIM there wouldn't be any elderscrolls games at all.

(This post will either be ignored or misinterpreted.)

Zalphon: CHIM is being uneaten by the world.

As all truly useful knowledge is on this forum, a lot of the time.

CHIM is another part of the lore in that it is something that some characters believe in. That someone in the world believes it is true is beyond dispute, and that Vivec believes he has it is pretty well certain. Wether or not it actually is anything more than a delusion on the part of someone who had far exceeded his natural lifespan by leeching the power of a god's disembodied heart is something else again. A lot of folk here will say yes, a significant minority say no, and I say "I'm too busy proving that Pelinal's sword-theory is right by sticking every filthy elf I see to give a damn about your god-speak." Same thing with retroactive godhood. Were Tiber Septim and the Tribunal made eternal gods retroactively after becoming them at a particular time, or does it go "they were once mortals, then they became gods." Sme say yes, some say no, some say "shaddap, sword-theory fo evah."

I too also prefer to believe the "stabbing all elves will solve all problems and let us move forward and kick some ass."

Personally, I think all of the Tribunal were driven mad by the power of the Heart of Lorkhan, just like Dagoth Ur. However, their madness took a more friendly aspect. I also believe that Vivec/Vehk is a liar and murderer who was slaughtered by the daedra.

I also believe that the Trial is non-canonical, and the sermons the writings of an insane loser.

Once again, Sword-theory is where it is at.

On Sword-Theory:

http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml#16

(Read: make sure your assault isn't named by your opponent beforehand.)

...because he provides almsivi intervention instead? Sorry, I had to.

Anyway, big YES to CHIM being silly. I also don't think Vivec really has it. Where's the proof? Actions speak louder than words, and seems to me he hasn't done anything to prove he has achieved that "status of being", or whatever.

Also agree with the "Tribunal did squat" line. I tried to calculate the monetary cost for an NPC to assault Dagoth Ur successfully. Let's see, with a faction rep. of a zillion, Vivec should have been able to have a disposition of at least 100 with all the Temple enchanters. With a few exquisite pieces of jewelery, he could have made some powerful enchantments (I'm thinking something that Calms Humanoid on Target, 50 ft. explosion, while also absorbing enemy health) for about 100,000 septims. Seriously, god powers aside, you can win if your rich! He must not have wanted to win.

Read the thread.

I apologize on behalf of the devs for a big huge billboard appearing out of the ground proclaiming "VIVEC HAS CHIM, [censored]ES" <_<. Oh, and Talos had CHIM. http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/many-headed_talos.shtml. (http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/mythic_dawn_commentaries.shtml#3)

The Trial is probably the best example of him exhibiting CHIM. He even said he had it...more than once.

I can always appreciate a dissenting opinion, especially if it makes me think. It just gets boring when a good basis isn't provided for support and especially when people basically say the same thing...

I reject the Trial of Vivec though. I know that many here worship ad bow down before it as canon, but I dont. I didnt meet a Vivec like is shown in the Trial. I met a Vivec who was defeated, tired and worn out. I met a god who was ready to die and had made peace with himself, not a villian, scoundrel or arrogant fiend that seems to be the view of the Trial, who challenges Azura and attacks her. Vivec was not trustworthy, but not someone I'd expect to pull off something like that. Hell, when you tell him you killed his former lover he offers only sadness, without a single trace of anger.

Of course, I'll no doubt get strips torn off me for this as this post will no doubt be seen as sacrilege.

No, there are others who don't accept it, or at the very least take it with a grain of salt. As Sotha Sil has said, "Vivec is a poet. Trust not the words of a poet, as he is born to seduce. Yet for poetry to sieze the heart, it must ring with the chimes of truth."

What's the point of a knight in shining armor when the damsel in distress can kick the dragon's butt herself? The world needs heroes. For a world to need heroes, it's required that the rest of the people can't take care of their stuff themselves. Including rulers, deities, influential guilds etc.
CHIM inside.

The Vivec you met in the game was tired and worn out. But by the time of the Trial the burdens of statehood had been lifted from his shoulders. Of course he acted differently!

Anyways, whether you deem it canon or not, Vivec in the Trial is a quintessential example of CHIM.

Vivec's number one rule to successful villaining: Morrowind is the Player's Game. Never initiate an attack on the Player, because they have Saves.

See the Trial as Vivec the Player's Game, as Morrowind is You the Player's Game.

No one really believes you when you tell them that Vivec's face is painted for a reason.

And people get hysterical about Vivec's supposed incessant lying that makes all his writings untrustworthy, but never realize the possibility that he had the nerve to lie to them for the entire conversation. Who would dare lie to the Nerevarine? He's too awesome.

I don't think the Vivec we see in "Morrowind" is lying. He knew this day would come; that one day the true Nerevarine would arrive and clean house. I didn't attack Vivec when I played MW, because I felt the whole main quest was fated; just as the Tribunals' rule was fated. When you think about it, it was even destiny that the Dunmer would be created from the Chimer -- Nirn would be the poorer without them.

He told some specific lies to you, but the entire statesman persona is a Face just like the Water Face. He presented himself as a war-weary sage who has sacrificed for his people, and speaks to you in frank, uncomplicated terms befitting an equal who will soon carry the torch of Morrowind's destiny.

He's beginning to snap out of it by the time the Thief goes to Cyrodiil. He wouldn't have acceded to such an absurd trial if it didn't have such potential to be hilarious.

To the extent that Vivec had CHIM, he was also Dagoth Ur. In general people with CHIM don't use it against other people because it would be like playing Monopoly against yourself.

I just realized that I didn't answer the main idea in my earlier post so I will: CHIM is not silly. Wether you believe it or not, it's still a fun idea to bounce around a room when you have some free time. Like most of TES.

also, it reminds me very much of listening to hippies who are past their prime.

No, people don't tend to tell you flat out what CHIM is. You kind of have to form an idea listening to all these jokes.

I would say Vivec didn't use CHIM to kill the Nerevarine and Ur, help his people, etc. mostly because he's usually rather... unrational. Take the stories about him where he magically shows up and kills things for no reason for example. I think he simply didn't see the need or have the motivation to do anything useful with CHIM, which very well could be a property of said crazy game element.

Interesting scale: Everything else < CHIM < Godhead < What happened to Sheogorath

I reject it too (thus, my earlier post....I wanted to draw out the people that believe in the Trial and those that don't).

For those that hold the Trial as canon, consider the following...

It ends with "VIVEC WROTE THIS!"
Azura was reduced to posessing the vocab. of a 2 year old.

Anyway, I personally think that CHIM is a "second Numidium effect" type plot device, concocted by developers to cover potential plot holes and inconsistancies in the lore because some hissy-fit having lore nerds would go "Waaah, Cyrodil is suppose to have jungle, but in Oblivion it was a temporal forest! My ability to enjoy this game has diminished!". Nothing more.

Not liking RPs is one thing, but that is, to be blunt, completely wacked. And if you read even one of a whole slew of texts or learn anything about the chronology of the games you supposedly played to get on this forum... yeah...

That's not CHIm buddy



I think it is silly, though i have real philosophical and logical objections to it, unlike the op who doesn't seem to understand. Silly isn't really a good way of putting it, I just find it to be illogical.

No your not the only one. I think it svcks. The reason why I'm not so interested in ES as it stands. I'm into the politics, the wars, the history. Getting tired of all the implausible magical plot devices getting thrown around. Magic just gets in the way of good storytelling.

This is the difference between a book and a game.