That is the difference between knowing and understanding.

Okay, lets break it down Socratise style. So a few questions for you to answer:

• What is the Crowned Tower, or rather at first what is the Tower?
  
• What are protean values? Where else do they occur?
  
• What was created with constant transformation in mind? Why? And from what?

I can certainly empathize with that. I didn't have any real problem with MK's Nordic myths (the Aludagga, or whatever the proper name is), but for the rest of it, I've found I need to read it at least three times before I can even derive meaning from it. The first read-through, I'm barely even grasping sentence structure for some reason, I might as well be reading hfgffhsoinvnownfasf for all I'm getting from it. The second read, I'm at least being able to discern that there is a meaning in what I'm seeing. And the third read I'm starting to get the point; but even then, if it wasn't for these forums, I'd likely never get a full grasp on them.

Okay, I need to interject. When a bit of knowledge is already known, it makes sense for it to be shared in the simplest way possible (IE telling a person an answer when they ask a question). When someone asks a question (What is CHIM?) you should answer it, and in the context they mean.

As for what CHIM is, on a basic level, is to come to a realization that everyone and everything is an illusion, and are merely actors doing the role they have been asigned. This realization can go two ways, you either zero-sum (freak out and cease to exist because you're screwing with things), or achieve CHIM ("Becoming" the Godhead, sorta.). To put it into ability like things, CHIM gives you total omnipotence, omnipresence, yadda yadda yadda.

This is a super basic answer.

Huzzah!

Thank you Verlox! The sad truth is, I've heard this explanation before, but the constant blurring of the topic in these forums causes me to forget what it was after a while.

One more step Verlox. You're still stuck inside the world. Vivec in the skin of a particular woman, wasn't just a daydream.

No! Bad Proweler! Talk like Verlox. Speak English, not CHIMerese. :rolleyes:

CHIM can't be fully defined from within the world because CHIM ultimately transcends the world. This does not mean that CHIM is illogical, but rather that "the world" does not exhaust all that is.

There is in fact a very clear and precise definition of CHIM, but to say it outright destroys the magic.

Actually, this way of saying it seems to obvious. I might have to delete this post...

I cannot tell how much of these CHIM anolyses are from an in-character Godhead perspective and how much is actual constructive criticism of one's attempts to fully grasp it.

All I know is that if he's writing in-character, then he's being a stick in the mud . But I support people writing in-character on these forums, as long as they don't think they've attained CHIM in real life

It's English Jim, but not as you'd know it. It's not like the idea hasn't been thought up before.

DUN DUN DUUUNNNN

Well, you could always remake existence to your approval. Or continue living the dream with all the power of CHIM. Or still live in the same world, but take on a different form. Or change Skyrim into England.

I vote for swampy Skyrim!

Chim is closer to looking like some of the ideas in the Screwtape Letters.

He's stuck in the skin of a woman? Is she really fat?

If you're thinking of that motivational poster from a few years ago , it doesn't grasp the full breath of it. T0 for example also is a product of Chim. Hell, according to my readers Digest Charles dikeens experienced the effects of Chim. If you put it more elegantly, people might not even notice.

Motivational poster?

Charles dikeens?

I have no idea what motivational poster you're talking about, so that's probably not what I mean.

Anyways, here's one way I've said it before, which I don't think destroys the magic: CHIM is what makes the world real.

Notes:

1. To say the world is "made real" implies that the world could be, in some sense, "false."

2. This all forces the question: what does "the world" refer to?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godel%27s_incompleteness_theory

You're going to have to run a point by point for me, I'm not familiar with the book.

This thread will get closed if there are more references to real-world religions. This also excludes, unfortunately, any opportunity to discuss the wonderful but definitely religious Screwtape Letters.

What if we disguise the names with made up words?

Ahhhhh man.

Well, I had CHIM once.

You've been in #Lorrana's RP right? It bounced around there for a while.



That works, though I like alive better.

It's people that make it so, everything else is mostly decoration. A while ago I saw this showing of Aida, as a Opera - thank god for the projected subtitles. Though the story takes place in deep B.C. the people were dressed in modern clothes. Directors suit for the King, the soldiers in office security blue and the Princes as a Secretary and everybody else as office clerks. Because the the symbolism for hierarchy is the same, the story still works.

Another thing that irks me are your notes. I take it that you're hinting that with Chim the distinction between reality and representation breaks down. Though I don't think anybody would arrive at that answer without having read a bit about Simulacra and Simulation.



Any system powerful enough to simulate itself can't make any meaningful prediction of itself. Nice.

Oh, I haven't gone to any of the chatrooms in forever. I don't even know if #Loranna's RP is active anymore. It's possible (even plausible) that I've seen the poster, but nothing specifically comes to mind.

Okay, what I'm trying to suggest by my notes is that the world as it is represented (whether in langauge, in sense experience, or whatever) never fully exhausts all of reality. CHIM is realizing one's simultaneous being within and beyond the world as it is represented.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Snowy_Granius

I don't think you should make the distinction between within and beyond in the first place so I wouldn't know.

Is there absolutely nobody on Fanfiction.net that wrote anything about him? There must have been some one that could look past his cold hard 100 attack, and lovingly with great affection cast him as the hero of his own story.

But it would always be someone else casting Snowy as the hero. Snowy could never cast himself as the hero of the story. At least not without becoming a whole nother Snowy.