Who Founded the Empire? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Thu May 31, 2012 1:10 am

Tiber Septim founded the Empire after conquering all of Tamriel. But Tiber was Talos, and Talos was Nordic, right? Yet the Empire seems to ruled and dominated by the Imperials.

What I am asking is:
--Which race can be credited with founding the Empire?
--The Nords worship Tiber Septim, or Talos, because he was such a badass that when he died he was made into a Divine?
--When did the Imperials get dominant control over the Empire?

EDIT: The title should read "Who Founded the Empire". Typo, and I can't fix it.

» Thu May 31, 2012 2:25 am

St. Alessia founded the first empire or Ysgramor... I'm not sure. But remember tha Cyrodillians are Nords in fact.

» Wed May 30, 2012 8:03 pm

But remember tha Cyrodillians are Nords in fact.

No.

» Wed May 30, 2012 10:20 pm

Alessia founded the first Empire, then Reman Cyrodiil came along and founded a new one.

This Empire was founded by Tiber Septim, which wasn't really one person, however the commonly accepted Tiber is Nordic and the Nords did help him conquer Tamriel. The center of his Empire however is in Cyrodiil his biggest, richest and most important city was in Cyrodiil and all ancient Empires started there. It's like a 6th century Spanish warlord having the chance to unite all of Europe, the logical place to base power would be Rome. Simply because of the history and location as a result Rome would once again be the most important city in the world.

» Wed May 30, 2012 5:58 pm

The First Empire nominally started when Harald united Skyrim. His dynasty conquered northern Tamriel and lend aid to the Alessian rebellion. The term is a bit jumbled, as both the empire of the Nords under Harald's dynasty and Alessian Cyrodiil are called the First Empire. It's probably a very anachronistic term.

The Second Empire was founded by the Remans.

The Third Empire was founded by Hjalti Early-Beard (Tiber Septim) with the help of Wulfharth (and Cuhlecain, who Hjalti was general to before his death, I suppose).
Hjalti's race isn't really known. A Breton, a Nord, a very nordic Breton? Who knows.

Talos is three people: Tiber Septim, Wulfharth and Zurin Arctus, who engaged in a mythical re-enactment of Lorkhan and thus became part of the pantheon.

» Thu May 31, 2012 8:49 am

The First Empire nominally started when Harald united Skyrim. His dynasty conquered northern Tamriel and lend aid to the Alessian rebellion. The term is a bit jumbled, as both the empire of the Nords under Harald's dynasty and Alessian Cyrodiil are called the First Empire. It's probably a very anachronistic term.

Mereth-era hijinks.

» Thu May 31, 2012 3:06 am

Would the current empire be considered the Fourth Empire (founded by the Medes)?

» Thu May 31, 2012 8:22 am

The Medes are just a ruling dynasty. The Empire still styles itself after the Third.

» Thu May 31, 2012 3:53 am

Would the current empire be considered the Fourth Empire (founded by the Medes)?

So far, Mede appeared to avert a total collapse of the empire. Aside from the mages guild dissolving, it appears its more or less a continuation of the Septims.What happens after Mede II is up in the air.

» Wed May 30, 2012 5:37 pm

What happens after Mede II is up in the air.

Ottus dynasty.

» Wed May 30, 2012 8:18 pm

Ottus dynasty.

We're gonna have to burn Cyrodiil to the ground if that happens.

» Wed May 30, 2012 8:09 pm

So far, Mede appeared to avert a total collapse of the empire. Aside from the mages guild dissolving, it appears its more or less a continuation of the Septims.What happens after Mede II is up in the air.

According the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fourth-era, the empire collapsed after Martin's sacrifice and "Most of the provinces secede from the Imperial rule." So what does it take for one empire to end and another to begin?

Ottus dynasty.

Nah, the Ottus clan ended when the last of its heirs took a vow of celibacy early in the 4th era.

» Thu May 31, 2012 5:18 am

St. Alessia founded the First Empire, AKA the "Alessian Empire".

Reman Cyrodiil founded the second empire, though he was never an Emperor in name.

Tiber Septim founded the Third Empire, which was also the first to truly encompass all of Tamriel. Reman never conquered Morrowind, and only managed tribute at best from Summerset. Morrowind capitulated to Tiber without a fight due to the (not publicly known) waning of the Tribunal's divine power and their ability to see what Tiber really was (a Shezzarine). Tiber then conquered Summerset with the power of a Giant Stompy Brass Robot that the Tribunal gave him as tribute.

» Wed May 30, 2012 10:50 pm

According the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fourth-era, the empire collapsed after Martin's sacrifice and "Most of the provinces secede from the Imperial rule." So what does it take for one empire to end and another to begin?

Wasn't the Empire continued under the leadership of Potentate Ocato? I thought that after the assassination of the Empire there was a mini interregnum in which the Aldmeri Dominion was formed but ended some 20-40 years later with Mede's arrival.

» Thu May 31, 2012 4:15 am

Wasn't the Empire continued under the leadership of Potentate Ocato? I thought that after the assassination of the Empire there was a mini interregnum in which the Aldmeri Dominion was formed but ended some 20-40 years later with Mede's arrival.

Ocato gets assassinated in 4E10 and the empire is without any leadership. The link to the 4th Era timeline at TIL also states that the Elder Council is fractured. I get the impression that the Colovian warlord, Mede, had to make quite the effort to reestablish the Empire in the chaos and disunity of the continent.

I assumed the events and consequences were meaningful enough to make the current Empire distinct from the Septim one.

» Wed May 30, 2012 8:57 pm

They consider it to be the same empire because that makes things simpler. It also probably maintained all the old laws, assumed all the old debts, et cetera.

» Thu May 31, 2012 1:25 am

No.

Well of course they are not Nords now, but Imperials and Nords are both descended from Nedes.

» Thu May 31, 2012 5:21 am

There's a bit on this back in http://imperial-library.info/content/letters-elder-scrolls-adventures:

Why does Duadeen refer to Tiber Septim as the Cyrodiil? He’s a Nord, if I remember correctly.

Or a Breton, if you believe those jokers in Alcaire. Traditionally, anyone strong enough to take the Imperial Throne is known as the ‘Cyrodiil,’ no matter the province kingdom of their birth. It’s a complicated the-king-is-the-land kind of thing that reaches back to the time when the Elves ruled the area before it was taken from them by the First Empire of the Nords. “Cyrodiil” is a pretty blanket term for every element of the Imperial Province: its common provincial name is Cyrodiil, the capital city is named Cyrodiil, the people are the Cyrodiils, and the Emperor is “The Cyrodiil.” A lot of people still think it comes from the surname of Reman Cyrodiil, who built the region into the Second Empire of Men, but, really, he just took its ancient Elven name and stuck it onto his own (sorta like somebody in our world calling themselves “Jonny America”). And, while we’re still on the subject, no, Tiber Septim isn’t a Nord, he’s an Atmoran.

» Thu May 31, 2012 4:59 am

So are Nords at least a big part of everything in TES?

» Wed May 30, 2012 6:06 pm

Nords are from Atmora, Nedes are ancestors of the Imperials/Cyrodiilics. Nedes were the men that were already here when the Nords arrived.

» Thu May 31, 2012 8:48 am

Hmm... can someone reference me to where everyone is getting this information?

I always thought Nedes came from Atmora, into Skyrim, kicked the Elves' ass's, then settled Tamriel and formed the Nords and Imperials.

» Wed May 30, 2012 6:51 pm

I thought Nedes were the native tamrielic humans (the nibenese), then the Colovians were the mixture of nords and Nedes.

» Thu May 31, 2012 6:36 am

Hmm... can someone reference me to where everyone is getting this information?

I always thought Nedes came from Atmora, into Skyrim, kicked the Elves' ass's, then settled Tamriel and formed the Nords and Imperials.

There were proto-men tribes in Tamriel since the Dawn Era, add to these earlier Atmorans migrants and you have the Nedic tribes of Tamriel. When Ysgramor's companions were burning the Snow-Elves they encountered the Manmeri (Bretons) of High Rock who were descendants of heavy interbreeding between Nedes and Aldmer. They also found the Kothringi of Black Marsh in their travels who were Men that could survive Black Marsh (but not the Knahaten Flu which killed them off).

» Thu May 31, 2012 1:18 am

Atmorans came from Atmora (or if you believe the Nordic creation myth, are Nedes born on Tamriel and emigrated to Atmora; damn non-linear dawn time!) as did the giants

Redguards came from a warrior Yokudan caste.

Nedes are the original Cyrodiilic aboriginal men.

Kothringi are the same, more or less, except they're more centered in Black Marsh (IIRC).

Modern Cyrodiils are (again, IIRC) decended from the intermingling of Nedes with Nords.

All elves are descended from the Aldmer.

Argonians come from the Hist, like how men and mer came from the Elhnofey.

» Thu May 31, 2012 4:23 am

Well, my favorite is the Nord race, and I think deep-down I just want to make sure the Nords are 'someone to reckon with'.