Vault Dweller
Courier
Chosen One
Warrior
Lone Wander

Think they speak for themselves.

The Vault Dweller, mainly because of the reasons stated in this very thread.

The entire point of the Enclave being in Fallout 3 is so they can be there to ask you to help them with their "evil plan" of killing everyone in the wasteland with their FEV. Augustus and Eden fight over that, even though what went on between them was also poorly writen. They spent their time in DC working on that Virus and in the end thanks to Broken Steel that virus turns out to be a complete dud, doesn't turn DC into a "Graveyard" at worst it gave those that drank it hard gas or something.

I dont see your point. The hero is only bad if you make him bad, the main quest has nothing to do with him being bad, unless you do the bad parts of it, and those are′nt even canon so im not getting what ur saying.

He's saying the Lone Wanderer is the bad guy because Autumn wanted to do the exact same thing as Lyons BoS just with the Enclave taking the place of Lyons BoS but instead of a peaceful negotiation or anything like that he doesn't tell Lyons anything and leads the attack against the Enclave. He kills dozens of people for no reason when all of those lives could've been saved.

And you do not know what is canon or not except what is mandetory.

Leading the attack, killing the Enclave, and either forcing Autumn to surrender or killing him is canon.

Enclave are an enemy, i dont see the reason of a peaceful solution, war is war, the colonel is the reason James died

How good vs evil of you. They are the enemy because Bethesda made them the enemy. Autumn didn't kill James. James killed himself, and the funny thing is he shouldn't have died, cause Broken Steel shows us that the chamber isn't deadly at all

Once again Bethesda great job on the writing

That's why Lyons was preparing for war.

The Lone Wanderer could've said something like "The Enclave at Project Purity revolted, their mission is the same as yours. We should negotiate to avoid bloodshed."

But no he's just like "THE ENCLAVE MUST DIE!"

And please read Styles responce about James.


True.

You can't join the master or Enclave in FO1 and 2, either.

As far as "staged" events go, like the LW escaping project purity with Li, at least you game it out, and play your character.

There are staged events in FO2 as well, that you cannot interfere with, unless with some you cheat. But, no matter how slow or fast you retrieve the GECK, Arroyo is gone.

But poor writing or staged events doesn't take away from the character. Technically, if you are rpging in FO3, you could give Autumn the code, be executed, and start over.

In all these games, you can do what you want...to an extent. There is something in all the games that pushes you to an end.

Sure you can. Game just ends there though, as you take over the wasteland. It was planned that game would continue after being a super mutant and you could come with on the assault of Vault 13. IIRC.


But the point here is that in Fallout 2, if the Enclave succeed in releasing their virus, everyone in the world dies. So of course you stop that, otherwise you die. In Fallout 3, if you help them in releasing the virus, since you can actually help them this time, it doesn't change the world at all (you don't actually help them.) People don't die en masse when they come in contact with the virus, their plan they've been working on for 30 years to kill all super mutants, ghouls, humans and rad-critters in the entire D.C. turned out to just give them the common cold, or what? I never noticed any change when I put in the virus :/ the ending said the wasteland turned into a graveyard...

Savage said it well. Helping the Enclave in Fallout 3 isn't really helping cause no matter what they still attack you, so why help them at all. Still Broken Steel ruins it if you still decided to help the Enclave with their plan, because it turns out to be a dud. The Virus they spent the last 35 years or so working on does nothing. So even if you help the Enclave, the virus doesn't work and you are still forced to join the Brotherhood to take out AAFB.

So since the Enclave's plan is meaningless, my view is that the Enclave being in the game is meaningless. Since the game is Brotherhood vs Enclave and the Enclave being in the game is pointless, then that makes the whole game pointless.

Also as Savage pointed out you can join the Master in Fallout.

No, because they are the bad guys. Bethesda must have taken so much liking to BoS, that they decided to turn them into real paladins that fight evil, and i dont see the problem with that. The game is not pointless, just cause Enclave are unjoinable. Enclave play the role as the bad guys, even with a thoughtful goal (which is gonna fail no matter what) they are still bad. Someone stated at sometime that Enclave never let anyone join and only recruit Enclave citizens and something (like west BoS) and thats enough reason for them not to be able to be joined by the player.

I didn't say the Enclave are pointless because you can't join them. I said the Enclave is pointless because their plan doesn't work. Their big bad evil kill everyone in the wasteland plan was completely pointless because it doesn't work, you put it in and nothing happens.

So you know what that means? They aren't really evil. They may have wanted to kill eveyone but their plan didn't work. The FEV virus they ask you to put into Project Purity doesn't do a damn thing.

Also the Enclave didn't kill James. James killed himself. He shouldn't have even died in that chamber because it isn't deadly. James also didn't know anything about the Enlcave so I don't get why he freaked out and killed himself. Augustus was also against Eden's FEV plan, so really he just wanted to help and if you think about it, the Enclave did help with project purity. They were the ones that got the GECK out of Vault 87. They were the ones that hooked up the GECK to project purity.

Seriously when you look at it that way, the Enclave under Augustus were good. They were against Eden's plan. They didn't kill James and they were the ones that got the GECK and connected it to project purity. So how is that Evil?

They killed a girl that didnt do anything right in front of James face, what do you think he would have done?

Not freak out and kill himself. That is a pretty extreme reaction. He lives in the wasteland, he should be used to crap like that.

Augustus pretty much came in and did the samething as the Brotherhood, only more upfront/forceful. He wanted the Enclave to take control of Project Purity and have it working for their plans to rebuild the wasteland.

Lyons helped James by protecting Project Purity until it hit a dead end, that is the extent of their help on project purity. The Enclave, James, his son and the people of Rivet City were responcible for Project Purity, but in the end who takes control of Project Purity? Is it the people of the wasteland? Is it the people of Rivet City that helped James? No it was the Brotherhood that took control of it in the end, but what did they do? Really they did nothing to help, all they did was steal it back from the Enclave.

Augustus gets labled as Evil simply because he was up front with his intentions, unlike Lyons what would have simply stolen it from James after he was finished.

And the Brotherhood shot down civilians that hadn't done anything infront of Megaton, remember?

People that tried to steal water from them.

And the game ends. By that rational, giving Autumn the code to the purifier, and thus ending the game, is a viable ending. Game over, Enclave/Autumn wins.

Also Enclave at that point is split. The Eden faction, robots, do not attack you. The Autumn faction, does. When leaving RR, you do not have to fire a single shot if you don't want to. The sentry bots and turrets will kill them.

So when raiding the purifier, you are now attacking the Autumn faction.

Why isn't killing everyone in fo2 a viable option? In FO2 they do not want you to be evil. Fact, if you finish quests in FO2 using the evil path, you get less exp. Why? It generally is not much of a short cut. The only exception could be some assassination quests.

Also, the Enclave did not recover the GECK. They stole it from the LW.

Greatest adventure.

The Courier- Probably went more places and saw more than anyone else.

Greatest contribution to humanity through their adventure? The Chosen One. Without him, everyone would be dead.

You aren't getting it. I didn't say the Enclave in Fallout 3 are pointless because you can't join them. I said they are pointless because their plan is pointless. It simply doesn't work. So WTF are they doing in DC? They were made the bad guys by Bethesda because Eden's plan is to kill everyone. Yet thanks to Broken Steal if you help the Enclave, nothing happens. No one gets killed, DC doens't turn into a graveyard. Eden's big evil scheme failed miserably.

Also thanks to Bethesda's wonderful writing, Autumn still acts as if he is loyal to Eden after he rebelled against him, but I guess that is another matter.


They went to get it as well. Lone Wanderer had it so they took it. I highly doubt the LW would know how to hook it up to Project Purity.

The Enclave got it to work. The way I see it they have a legitimate claim to project purity. After James killed himself, he pretty much handed over control to the Enclave. Unless James told the others how to hook up the GECK to Project Purity, and I didn't see when he had the time to do that. The other science nerds wouldn't have had a clue. The only ones that could do it would be the Enclave. Augustus didn't even want to kill everyone in DC, so what is the big deal with him controlling it.

The Brotherhood however have no legitimate claim to project purity. They just took it from the Enclave, and if James had lived, they would have taken it from him.

But it so happened to be that we were speaking about Col. Autumn, who did not want to release a virus that would kill every mutant, ghoul, animal and human being in the wasteland. Col. Autumn wanted to fix the water purifier and distribute water to the wasteland inhabitants, just like the Brotherhood wanted, except that Autumns wanted the water purifier as a mean to control the wasteland inhabitants, probably creating a nation where the Enclave would act as a government. The Brotherhood just can't be arsed with that since they are just a military junta, they can't govern a nation. They are just soldiers. So they have scientists fix the purifier, then oversee as water gets distributed everywhere without trying to unify the wasteland and bringing order or anything, everything is still the same wasteland chaos, only with clean water now.

And if you lived in Megaton and didn't think your town got enough water, you still went there thirsty, then these soldiers come to make a delivery and you say that they have to come with more water and they say "no can do" and out of desperation you try to take water, then these soldiers open fire on you... I don't really see how that is any way is morally better.

Ninja'd

Is that a tongue twister? haha, i could only just follow it.

Remember that the Enclave in F3 did not try to kill everyone. President Eden wanted to, but the Enclave did not want to (hence why they rebelled) All Autumn's Enclave wanted to do was unite the wasteland, and purify the water. Also bear in mind that they were protecting Project Purity from the lone wanderer, because they genuinely believed his intention was to poison the water supple (or whatever it was Eden asked him to do). So the Enclave at this point had honest, good and just goals.


You have to consider that the BoS in F3 are attempting to be the protectors, the people who are saving the weak and vulnerable of the wasteland. So when they kill people who are desperate for water, who are just trying to get some water so they can survive, they are clearly morally culpable for such an act. It is an atrocity to do that, while also trying to pass themselves off as a force for good.

Yes that is a tounge twister, thought something other then just simple replies about how others are wrong and i am right would spice things up.
who are the Enclave that burn the wastelanders? do they belong to Edens robot Enclave or Autumns rebel Enclave?BoS fight against super mutants to save the people, if someone tries to steal water from them, then i dont see why they should do nothing and just watch them get it. Its like if you were getting robbed, and you clearly had the manpower to take the robber down, wouldnt u do it? Its not a matter of moral.
They are the ones that you have to kill, and enemies no matter what. Fallout 3 is not the only game with a specific group that you HAVE to kill.
Then idk which Enclave the Enclave [censored]s burning the wastelanders belong too, mind telling me then?

Protect it from the scientists that thought it up and made it work?
I suppose if they had any right to claim anything as part of any true government, they could step in. But To come in and kill off an assistant and not value the word and work of the science team that actually brought PP to fruition is at the very least nefarious.



I haven tplayed F3 in a minute, so I may be mistaken, but who are they killing that is desperate for water, again?
They set it up with RIvet City to have water delivered to the people that needed it. All BoS does in protect PP afterwards- and i dont believe that is even a long term operation- the wastes are too unstavble for them to just pull out.

The only people (asidef rom the Enclave, who tried to seize PP by force) that were killed as a result of PP having water were the bandits that were killing Rivet City/Wastelander scab caravaners. But that had nothing to do with the BoS.
Or is there something I am not remembering?

That isn't a good reason to have them in the game. There could have had another faction for that. They could have at the very least given a good reason to fight the Enclave. We didn't get that in Fallout 3. Instead we got an Enclave that goes to war with itself but at the sametime still united, and thanks to Broken Steel, the only good reason to not like the Enclave was taken away. Other than Eden's plan to kill everyone, there isn't anything evil about the Enclave in Fallout 3.