I was gonna join them (when i was a noob to fallout) cause i believed what he said on the radio. Beth ruined it, and now i will never have the respect to the Enclave like i did when i started out in fallout. But im not sorry.

Eden ruined it. Augustus believed in everything Eden was saying on the radio. Augustus wanted to rebuild America and help the people of the Wasteland. He rebelled against Eden when he found out Eden wanted to go through with his "kill them all plan."

So Augustus isn't Evil. How is wanting to help people and rebuild the DC wasteland evil?

But I agree Bethesda ruined it because they were all over the place with the Enclave in Fallout 3. Their writing just svcked and Broken Steel made it worse. As you said the Enclave were simply in the game for us to kill them.

was it autumn or Augustus that killed the inicent scientist at the purifier? Cause that was what finally made me realize they were evil.

Well Autumn and Augustus is the same person. I sometimes call him Autumn but I mostly go with Augustus because it is a great name. I didn't see that as all of them being evil, though the act of killing an unarmed person is an evil act. I saw that as being authoritarian and shouldn't condemn all his people as evil.

Every Faction has blood on their hands. Even Lyons BoS.

Anyways this has gone way off topic.

I agree every faction has blood on he′s hands, and i agree this is way off topic, but it makes that person who you are saying is trying to do hte right thing evil. Plus all the Enclave′s going about killing everyone. Lets make a new topic shall we?

You know reading this thread just makes me want to have the option to join the enclave(Autumn's side) because he seemed to be the only guy with a long term goal and helping the wasteland. While Autumn wasnt the friendliest guy he did have a plan and its shame wasnt expanded on further and Bethesda just decided to give a smaller twirly mustache next to Eden.


The BOS on the other hand decided to abandon project purity and leaving it for super mutants(and given its just across the river they sure do svck at defending DC against them)
And only when the Enclave comes does the BOS even care about project purity with no real plan and not so sure on this but given that in FO2 since the BOS dident really fight the enclave and was more interested in vertibird specs would they even know about the enclaves past plan about poisening water supplies? If thats so why would they even care if the Enclave has Project Purity?

I have deleted a number of posts. If someone has a different point of view or an opinion you do not agree with, attacking that member is not going to be tolerated. You know which posts went and you know what you said so do not repeat that kind of behavior.

It is because they don't have it. They are kids that got bored with a toy and when another kid started playing with it they got pissed.

It is also important for Lyons to gain control of Project Purity, because it is the whole reason why he went native and decided to stay in DC. A decision that got Lyons and his people exiled from the Brotherhood and caused a bunch of is people to break away and form the Outcast. Lyons needs it to justify is foolish actions.

Yeah does sound like kids messing around though how would Project Purity justify his reasons to go native since if they couldn’t get it working, just finding some old mister handys and repairing them or just there somehow in built water purifiers(heck if they can be that compact just create water purifiers) be better and give it to the friendly communities(as well as training on how to fix em up) wouldn’t be the most ideal of ways to help but it works and allows communities to self efficient and not relying on them constantly for water. This would allow the BOS to focus on other things like helping Rivet City with getting the ship to sail and setting up defences and perhaps clear the traders path of super mutants and creating a safe haven for wastelanders.


Seems to be a lot more logical then focusing on one big water purifier or needlessly defending DC against super mutants without any long term goals and is a little towards there goals about gaining technology since im sure a working aircraft carrier would carry some weight plus if Rivet city scientists are knowledgeable with portable power supplies(which the BOS should be) they could of got Liberty Prime working a lot more quickly and put to use helping defend communities. All this would of worked a lot more better to go native and still keep there goal for technology somewhat intact.


Yeah they are children pretending to be white knights with no idea with that they are doing........

Agreed, but they are the only hope for the wasteland of DC against the mutants and Enclave stormtroopers.

the super mutants havnt got enough numbers(in lore) to occupy the wasteland given they are on the verge of running out of FEV and they cant repopulate natrually so the few settlements what are there should set up defences for them (BOS can help with setting up turrets and what not and if they have liberty prime should make it a hella of alot more easier.

on the otherhand the BOS have few numbers even recruiting slowly plus supplies would be a problem so sending men to contain the threat is useless since its only delaying them being wiped out pretty much and I do have trouble beliving they could fight the enclave aswell heck its pretty much true, they just send prime out to do the work and when prime gets blown up they just send the lone wanderer in on a sucide mission against deathclaws and there somehow second more bigger main base without much support (just a few initates....you know because sending the new guys on the most dangerous jobs is the most smart thign to do)

The East Coast BOS are idiots with no plans or long term goals with Autumns side of the enclave there was at least a long term not done in the most nicest way possible but was fairly planned out with unifcation and with aircraft would of made a formiddable foe against super mutants where most only have hunting rifles....though I do wonder why the Enclave decided to take control of project purity when Rivet city decided to move in for what like an hour when they had what a good 20 years to?

Oh Bethesdas Award winning writing right there

First I would like to say if Lyons and his people are the only hope against the Super Mutants than DC is doomed. Lyons was in DC for decades and yet he didn't have the brains to find Vault 87. For the love of God they have Vault 87's location high lighted on a giant map! All those years and no one bothered to go "hey I wonder what is in that Vault? Cause you know it's our mission to find tech and oh look this terminal says it has a GECK!" Also they never bothered to follow any of those super mutants to see where they were taking people? Serioulsy how dumb do you have to be to miss all that?

The Enclave were a good hope but Bethesda made us kill them because "they are evil."

As for Project Purity and why Lyons needs it. He decided to help the people of DC. He decided to protect project purity and most likey had plans to take it from James when it was done. The Brotherhood back West got pissed at Lyons "What the hell are you still doing in DC?!!!" pissed. So they decided to exile him, to no longer have any more communication. It is all because of Project Purity. He needs it to vindicate himself, cause if he doesn't than he truely wasted his time in DC.

Styles:

I understand. What I'm saying is from a rpg stand point, you can't discredit due to a dlc. No Broken Steel = you helped Eden.

Really, I took Broken Steel as a you do not help Eden dlc. Is that good? Not if you decided to help Eden, but otherwise, it fine.

If you want to nitpick every detail of a story, it would take hundreds of threads and arguments to go over every little detail. No doubt, the canon ending will be the LW was a hero. So based upon that ending, and that story, was the LW a good hero? I would say yes.

That is one of the keys. We know the canon ending of FO1 and 2. It is the hero path.

FO3 doesn't have a very good evil path, when dealing with the Enclave, if you consider them good, evil, or neutral doesn't matter. But I would say FO1 and 2 didn't have very good evil paths either. Playing evil is probably the hardest thing to do, and games grasping it isn't easy. But even if say in FO2 you could release the FEV on the world, it isn't canon. Canon is you stopped them. So, when debating the hero in FO3, we should assume the ending is the hero save the day ending. Throw out all the stuff about FEV and killing the wasteland.

Debating the writing of FO3, or the evil path of FO3, is entirely different as to what adventurer had the greatest adventure? Going by the good path, there really isn't anything wrong with the story, or the Enclave.

They didnt have the reasources to go after them or to search the vaults, hell they barely have reasources to protect themselves. Blame everything on Lyons if u like, but that man aint evil. Be a Enclave [censored] svcking their dikes, but they did kill alot of people that didnt do [censored]. You forgetting they had slaves at one time in the west coast? Or that they are killing everyone? Or that they dont give two [censored] about mutants? Enclave arent saints, eastcoast BoS atleast try to fight for the people against the super mutants, if you feel that Lyons is just trying to gain power and use the purifier as a reason, then whatever. James found a way to get it to work, and therefor he deemed it worthy to fight for, so he did and he succeded.

Did anyone actually say he was outright evil? I must have missed that.
Anyway, if they barely have the resources to protect themselves, why on earth did we have to put them in charge of protecting everyone!


Excuse me?

If they would only protect themselves then they surely would have enough reasources then when they are killing [censored] super mutants all over the wasteland. Super mutants are everywhere so its not wierd that they havent killed them all in 20 years.

Caesar.
Joshua Graham.

Who else has achieved and lived through what they have, and are still kicking?

I wouldnt say Caesar (eddy) all he has done is change 87 primitive tribes into a slaver army, although a big army he has gathered, it isnt hard to teach tribals to fight for you.

So far, the Vault Dweller

I think you miss the point with a rather generalised answer.
Caesar - Leaves on a mission for the FoTA to learn tribal languages.
"As an anthropologist and linguist, my assignment was to learn the dialects of the Grand Canyon tribes. What a [censored] waste of time!"
- Gets taken hostage by the weakest tribe.
- Kills their leader and gains control, of the weakest tribe.
- Trains this tribe in the art of warfare.
- Gains control of the more powerful tribes.
- A masses an army and land size equal to that of NCR
- Leads the most physically superior faction in the whole of Fallout.
- Is revered as a God/Son of a God.
- Did all this by himself with minimal help from others unlike most leaders.

Caesar has achieved the most of any person in the whole Fallout Universe, that can't be denied.
- Note I missed other good points, like his knowledge and understanding of Latin, because I'm running out of time...

Since you put it that way Papafern, you have me convinced. Caeser has definitely had a rather exciting adventure, possibly the best of all!


Im starting to feeling like you are making comments unrelated to what ive actually been saying.

Harold, Harold had the greatest adventure

I did not miss the point, but he didnt do anything that impressive. He took control of a tribe, trained them so they are much superior then any other tribe, and then takes down any neighboring tribe, the weakest first, and gains power that way, smart move, but i dont see that as a exiting adventure or anything, all he did was train a tribe and wage war.
what i think i was saying (i got a short memory sometimes, depending on what i have done since then) is that the BoS are trying to fight for others. It is related to what u said, unless ur making a dumb comment that makes no sense and had nothing to do with what i said at first, then it is related. BoS fight the super mutants, and over the years both numbers have diminished, along with the outcast leaving the BoS, which makes the BoS numbers even lower. They cant just abondon their goal, plus they get most new recruits from the wastelanders, and if they are defending the wastelanders then that means they get recruits to man their armor.
Lyons alteast tries thats all im saying

and Bethesda ended it.

Whoa, there.. Whoa.

It wasn't a case of "other kids playing with it so they wanted it"

It simply didn't work before the LW was born. Everyone abandoned it, because they thought it would never work. Not just BoS, but RC scientists and even James.

Then James happens to find out that a GECK may be the key while he is in Vault 101. BoS are not privy to this info, so there's no way they would just go "HEY! There is a GECK in vault 87, which is on our map!" No one had any clue about the GECK being the key to PP until waaaaaaaaaaay after the fact.

And why did the BoS go back to project purity? because "other kids" were playing with their toy? No.. They went back, because Dr Li called in a favor after she told them that James had figured out how to make it work but was killed by the Enclave- which they weren't expecting to even be there.

As far the the BOS simply beating up SM's and not doing much else.
Do we know in great detail what was wrong with LP? I mean, they have been working on it for a long time. but let me just tell you, reverse engineering parts for something isn’t the easiest thing to do. Fabricating unknown replacement parts might also be a bit difficult.
To just assume that RC scientists should have helped them rebuild LP is shortsighted. Dr. Li had other things she wanted to work on.
And BoS don’t have a magic wand or the desire to necessarily help RC be restored to an air craft carrier.
An entire dry dock, and enough cranes and other equipment would have tob e built from scratch to move it into said dry dock. And who does that benefit? Sure an Air craft Carrier could be cool. But RC already serves a purpose well enough.