Who Let the Dovahkiins Out? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:05 am

I think Wulfharth goes above and beyond being Dragonborn. He is Shor's ghost, afterall. And Shor demonstrates his shouting ability in Shor, son of Shor on a few different occassions. Maybe that's why.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:20 am

Yea, that makes sense.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:48 am

It doesn't explain why he was called the "Dragon of the North," though. You would think THE avatar of Shor, as zealotous as he was, would take offense to being labeled akin to his nemesis.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:58 am

Gods damn you, now I have no idea again. Maybe he is dragonborn but he learned the shout because of what you said.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:49 pm

Maybe the title "Ysmir" is part of the identity confusion, created by the triune being Talos. Then again, the Greybeards didn't officially proclaim him "Ysmir," did they? He wasn't the one they spoke of in the prophecy.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:06 pm

I dunno. Kind of seems fitting to brand the guy Dragon of the North for reinstating the traditional Nordic pantheon, though I get what you are saying.

Also may have been confused in the Talos business.

Edit: Ninja'd.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:24 am

Wulfharth was named Ysmir by the Nordic people.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:47 pm

Alessia and the Selectives are separated by a good number of years. Alessiah created what is now the Imperial pantheon as a compromise between the Nordic pantheon for getting the Nords' help, and the Elven pantheon because the Ayleid's slaves weren't ready to let go of their beliefs. Not every one was happy with this, but enough people were content enough, as that's how compromises tend to work.

Alessia then dies.

Later on, the Maruhkati form. They have a growing resentment for Akatosh being equated with the elven Auriel, and try to change the mythic to separate the bits of Auriel from their Akatosh. During this attempt, the Selectives discover the Tower and do their little dance that broke time for 1008 years (during which, the only constant seen among people were eight falling stars).

That's how I understand it all to have gone down, anyway.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:11 am

So Alessia created Akatosh, yes?

The Marukhati had nothing to do with his creation, just tried separating him from the elf god?

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:25 pm

The point of contention is that we don't know if the Selectives succeeded at anything or not. If they weren't successful, then yeah, they have nothing to do with Akatosh's creation. But if they did succeed, then they effectively recreated him, and so did have a hand in his creation as we know him today.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:40 pm

Wulfharth was dragonborn. Pretty obvious that tidbit wasnt thrown out there to mislead everybody. Plus it makes sense that he'd be the same as Hjalti

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:03 pm

Even if the Marukhati's didn't succeed, would mythopoeia not work anyways? Clearly many think or did think that Akatosh existed separately from Auriel and from the beginning of time. Plus the whole Dragonborn thing and the whole Empire thing and the whole saving the world thing.. he seems to like this Kalpa over the others. Why? Because he had Shezzar mixed in with him. Doesn't explain why Miraak was dragonborn besides a giant clusterfudge of dragonbreak. Aka-Tusk is... something? We don't know anything about that besides obscure text and even then.. wtf is it? Is it the thing on the word walls? Is it why Kohnarik is tusked?

Akatosh is one aspect of lore I think the devs get a little bit too convoluted, to be honest.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:14 am

As for "who let the Dovahkiin's out?"..

Arngeir says "some say they are sent by the gods in times of great need"

MK says "the eight (and one) limbs have always made a loophole"

Tsun says of Shor "perhaps, deep counselled, your doom he foresaw"

Seems to me at least, that this is not just the doing of Akatosh.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:39 am

But did the Nords? Varieties of Faith and other texts definitely seem to paint the picture that Akatosh is Alduin. It wasn't until Skyrim was released that we saw a hint of the Nords maybe seeing them as separate, but even then it wasn't universal... some new texts still talk about them as if they're the same, and one (by the very obviously learned Thromgar) that asserts they're separate.

Agreed. Time travel, non-linear time, and retroactively changing the past all just lead to a confusing plot-holed filled mess. It was clever the first time they did it with Daggerfall's endings (sometimes a little confusion adds to the flavor, as long as you don't have to think too hard about it), but too much makes it all become incoherent. If you can't follow it, you'll have trouble making sense of the things built on it, particularly if there's not supposed to be One True Answer to these things.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:56 am

Yeah, Alduin is another enigma of sorts because of his similarity to Akatosh, direct opposition to Akatosh and claimed sonship of Akatosh. He's very similar to Satakal in Yokudan myth.. so his sphere seems not to just have been something in Nord legend..? So many things are connected to Akatosh that the Shezzar-grafting process makes time wholly convoluted.

» Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:04 pm

Ten Reasons the Main Character is a Shezzarine

Spoiler