K, so I'm not sure if this is an old theory or not but here it goes anyway. We know that some people say dragonborn come from Akatosh, and some say the Emperor dragonborn become dragonborn after they light the fires. I think. But Akatosh came in later and we now know Alessia isn't the first one. Miraak apparently was. So that means that someone else was sending them besides Akatosh. I don't think it was Alduin because that wouldn't make sense. Why would he send these beings in the world that could be his undoing? So another possibility is Shor. As some have said, Shor and Alduin have been enemies before, likely still are.

Once in a past Kalpa when the Greedy man tried to hide pieces of the world along with the leaper King to undo him, the other time when he and alduin's ghost fought and Wulfharth learned the shout "What Happens When You Shake the Dragon Just So", and again when Alduin came to Sovngarde. So would it not make sense for Shor to send Dragonborn? They devour the souls of Dragons. Sounds like something one would do if they were an enemy of Alduin. And our destiny was to save Sovngarde and the world (the one he made possible) from Alduin. If not Shor then who in the world did the Atmorans believe sent the Dragonborn? Again it cant be Alduin because they demonize Alduin. No one else in their pantheon makes sense.

And if it is Shor, could it not be also Akatosh as well, as far as the Cyrodillic Dragonborn go?

Discuss, and sorry if this is an old theory.

Granted I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the nuances of the lore, but I was under the impression that the 'dragon' part of dragonborn referred specifically to the Dragon God of Time, so the dragon-soul-eating dragonborn and the Alessian light-the-dragonfires dragonborn were both blessings from Akatosh, albeit different blessings for different purposes.

Aka-Tusk. It's his way of getting Alduin under control, since he's such a troublesome, greedy bastard.

As far as the soul-devouring goes, it's worth mentioning that Arngeir says that dragons can absorb the souls of their fallen brethren on the battlefield, so it isn't an ability limited to the Dovahkiin.

Time god is changed by myth made by Alessia. Because he is changed at one time he is changed at all times, and because he is changed at all times, all gods are changed at all times.

According to MK's idea I guess.

Indeed, but it seems fitting to me for shor to make his creations be able to do the same thing. His shezzarine, Wulfharth was dragonborn, as was Talos who I believe some think is a Shezzarine, so it seems possible that he can make them. But I don't know anything about Aka-Tusk. Did he exist during the Merithic Era? If so then I guess he and Shor could simply be working together.

Aw, I was hoping that was only for things that become gods, not when they change.

I'm of the opinion that dragons and dragonborn are a highlander complex. Whence every dragonsoul is consumed and there's only one dragon(born) left, they become Alduin and the Kalpa ends.

Alduin is "the first born" but I have a feeling he was the final dragon of the last kalpa. Alas, this is speculation.

Miraak could have been made by Bormahu or Aka-tusk to get rid of Alduin. Not really sure who Aka-tusk even really is beyond him being a facet of the Time God though and I don't see how he is supposed to fit into the Atmoran pantheon when they already had Alduin as the Dragon. Is he ever mentioned outside of the Seven Fights?

....How badass would that be? If only. I wouldn't want to be alduin though. Would be a rather dikeish fate to become him and destroy the very thing you tried to save.

You can't unless you resurrect the dragons that the Akaviri killed and then kill them, too.

Aka-Tusk is a character mentioned in the Aldudagga, who supposedly holds power over Alduin. I peronally think he is the "Bormahu" that the dragons keep referring to. There's an image of a tusked dragon's head upon each word wall, and Alduin doesn't have tusks. It's much more noticeable on the collector's edition statue.

Are we certain that Wulfharth was Dragonborn? I know he's been called Ysmir, but wouldn't he have been absorbed by Tiber Septim, when Zurin Arctus killed him? The absorption process seems to override whatever soul trap spells are cast in the games.

I agree with this. The First and Last Dragonborns are as one, creating an ouroboros.

Akatosh is schizophrenic. That's why Alduin does it.

Alduin didn't really seem that bothered by the presence of Miraak anyway. In fact, for a good time, he was likely the High Priest of the Priests. Until ol' Herma Mora opened his eyes to his true potential.

It's only ever mentioned he was Dragonborn by Jarl Balgruuf as far as I know. He seems to be able to learn new shouts a little too well to just be a regular Tongue, but I suppose he did have being a Shezzarine going for him. If he were Dragonborn I imagine he wouldn't have the same control problems as a regular Tongue and wouldn't need to be gagged, but that information was around before Skyrim came along and retconned him into a possible Dragonborn.

Pretty much all tongues had to be gagged back then.

I like to think that there's a "God-the-Father, God-the-Son" thing going on with Bormahu and Alduin, only Alduin wanted the Father's spot for himself.

I have a similar opinion to this. I think that a lot of the actions of the Last Dragonborn could lead to them mantling Alduin. Like Malac said, we're an Ouroboros, the Firstborn of Akatosh and the Last Dragonborn are two sides of the same coin.

When the Marukhati danced on the tower, they didn't change Akatosh. They were trying to separate Akatosh and Auri-El.

I am not certain, no. The only evidence I have seen people raise for it is because Balgruuf calls Wulfharth Dragonborn.

Are you certain that Akatosh existed before the Murakhati danced?

What about his quick learning of "What Happens When You Shake the Dragon Just So?"

He was clearly watching the PC fight Alduin.

To that end however, there's some http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:SR-concept-6877561087.jpg that had the words we learn appear in the form of the aurora borealis above the dragon walls. Certainly reminded me of the circumstances Wulfharth learned that specific shout.

I dont get what you mean. How could he have been watching us? You mean Shor? He'd still need to be dragonborn to learn a shout that fast.

Quite.

What about it? The Dovahkiin learns quickly through the absorbing of a Dragon's soul. Tiber Septim still spent years at High Hrothgar for his training.

What else would explain him learning it so quickly then?

Based on what information? I don't follow MK stuff much and some MK addict a few months back told me that Akatosh didn't exist at all until Alessia changed the mythic.