Orcs are not true Mer. The fall of Trinimac and the rise of Malacath have since marked them as a race apart, as is their nature and title; The Pariah Folk.

The fact still stands that Dunmer are strong. You're forgetting that Boethiah is widely worshipped by the Dark Elves and she forces her followers in becoming ambitious and independent. She's the Kyne to the Dunmer; a warrior goddess who pushes them hard whether they want to or not. The whole reason why Dark Elves are so robust is because of Her strictures. Without Her they'd never make it in Morrowind.

Also, they're not asking for preferable treatment. Asking not being threatened or discriminated against, is not asking much. In fact, for any decent leader, that's a given.

Face it. The only reason why the Nords don't like the Dunmer is because they're Dunmer. They've broken no laws and aren't trying to make life hard for other people. In fact, whenever something bad happens to them, the guard does nothing. So you can't blame them for being a little bitter, despite the fact that their presence in the city is completely benign. In fact, they've opened a few businesses so they're actually making Windhelm a better place to live.

You're getting way too worked up about this. You made your point well enough, is it really necessary to get upset and harbor the same sentiment towards Nords that you deride them for holding against Dunmer?

Anyways, I would've preferred to see the two groups get along better. I really liked the idea of the Nords offering warrior's hospitality to their old-foes-turned-wanderers, the Dunmer.
Racial tension is all well and good, but it gets boring after a while, and a limited syncretism of Velothi and Nordic cultures in eastern Skyrim would've been way more interesting to me.

Skyrim already lacks enough traditionalist Nords. I wouldn't want to see all of Skyrim either be Imperialzed or Dunmerized. That was Oblivion's biggest problem. There were no Imperials, just Little Skyrim, Little Morrowind, ect. Windhelm should be 100% Nordic, culturally. Not Imperial-Nord-Dunmer, because Imperial-Nords all over is bad enough as it is. The whole of Eastern Skyrim should be traditional. Winterhold could have worked as a place for Dunmer-Nord interaction, I feel.

Besides, we have Solsthiem for that, lore wise.

Well, I can't object to that.
All I can say then is "Solstheim sure is looking lovely this time of year."

Even the Greybeards say "Kynareth" instead of "Kyne". That one baffled me.

nah, I'm pretty sure they say Kyne at least once, though they may say Kynareth as well (I didn't remember them doing so but it's possible), and Paarthurnax definitely says Kyne.

Both. But in my opinion it doesn't really matter, as I believe a Warp in the North will occur and leave both sides weakened.
Which will then leave Dovahkiin as the best option- uniting both of the remaining sides under one banner and becoming the next Tiber Septim.
Driving the Thalmor from Tamriel with use of a tool of some sort (like the Numidium), perhaps something that will be found in TES VI by the new protagonist.

I thought it was weird they said "Kine" instead of "Kin," but that was just my bad pronunciation.

Back in Morrowind I pronounced "Vivec" "Vyvec." I still do on occasions. It just sounds more mystical. I also pronounced Thu'um, "Thoom", and I thought Corprus was Corpus. I'm gonna quit now before I make myself look any more stupider.

I'm glad I've been very good about my pronunciations

To add, SilentColossus is right. Skyrim SHOULD have thrown not just a political dividing line, but also a traditional and imperial line. Eastern Skryim amounts to just a slightly less imperialized nordic culture. The only real difference I see, is that Stormcloak held territory worships Talos in full view, instead of underground like a shameful act, and that Solitude is pretty cosmopolitan (I'm still quite disappointed Winterhold wasn't a major city, as previously described as a big cosmopolitan place like Solitude, but with mages, instead of bards and imperials).

Well la di da you filthy heretic.

In a way the political divide was the cultural divide. It just wasn't stressed enough in my opinion. If I had to redo I would've thrown in things like the name Shor being prohibited. I also would've added the entire Nordic pantheon. In a way though, this isn't the first time Skyrim was non-traditional. The First Song of King Wulfharth implies that before his rule, in the Alessian Era worship in Skyrim was just an Alessian 8 Divine pantheon, like the current-day Skyrim uses a Cyrodiilic 8 Divine system rather than the traditional Nordic names.

I didn't realize Corprus wasn't Corpus until like two years ago, and that was after at least a thousand hours of playing Morrowind. I'm gonna blame that on my screen-resolution though.

Yeah, I agree, but in my defense wouldn't limited Dunmer/Nordic cultural cross-contamination have contributed to a sense of greater cultural distinction, if there was already a more pronounced divide between true "traditionalistic" and Imperialized beliefs, with the former being more fully expressed than it is in Skyrim?

oh good grief, that was all one sentence and I think I mispelled most if it. I need to go to bed.

For me, I blame it on the fact that I didn't know Latin and thought Corpus sounded like Corpse.

I always thought it was thoo-uhm, and it was odd to hear people say 'thoom'. But it was more interesting that Odahviing did pronounce it 'thoo-uhm' when you first talk to him... then goes and says 'thoom' at/near the end of the MQ.

Imperials are good for the long run in my view.... Remember even though Ulfric is a Un-active asset he is still a Thalmor asset...

The empire is currently a thalmor asset :/

If it was an asset they wouldn't be putting all this effort into to weakening it..

Just because you want to destroy something doesn't mean you can't use it to further your cause.

Seems the cause they use the Empire for is the destruction of the Empire. Sure they'll have grander plans in the large scheme of things, but it seems destroying the Empire is their first step, as it weakens the chance of any united front against them. When they arrest people for Talos worship, it doesn't seem to be a genuine effort to stamp out Talos (even if they plan on doing that eventually), but to inflame tensions between the Empire and Stormcloaks. They certainly never arrested High King Torygg for it.

Speaking of Thalmor assets can someone explain to me the note in the Thalmor embassy which states Ulfric as an active Thalmor agent? Does anyone have a TIL link to that note? I didn't really understand it.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

It states he's an unwilling asset that is currently to be considered dormant and reacts badly to direct contact. People see asset and automatically assume thalmor lackey despite the rest of the document stating he's completely incooperative with them.

Asset != Agent. Assets are people/things you can use to your advantage. Agents are knowing enactors of your plans often using assets.

Tullius is a thalmor asset(active) because he does aid the thalmor, begrudgingly.

Rikke is a thalmor asset(active), for the same reasons above.

Ulfric is a thalmor asset(dormant), because they can play on his hatred of thalmor and the empire to create instability. He's dormant though, indicating that no agents should attempt to contact him.

Elenwen is a thalmor agent because she willingly works to further the thalmor goals.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/thalmor-dossier-ulfric-stormcloak

Also, I want to reiterate the bit about Stormcloak racism and their plans. The civil war is murky, and I don't particularly like either side, but Argonians are NOT ALLOWED TO LIVE IN THE WINDHELM, while Dunmer live in a virtual sewer and recieve no protection from the law (and if you think Nords appreciate you taking the law into your own hands, just try it and see how the guards react). Meanwhile, Ulfric and his men talk about how they want to 'drive every elf out of Skyrim', or words to that effect, once they have defeated the Empire. 'Taking the fight to the Thalmor' does not mean invading the Dominion, as I argued earlier in this thread. What it most likely means is pogroms.

[edit]
@Cecliff2
I think you are overthinking this. 'Asset' means 'agent', not 'supporter'. Ulfric is 'dormant' because he is no longer under direct control, though it is implied that at one point he did have a handler- he is a sleeper agent who may or may not be relaible, according to the dossier.

[edit again] My bad, I just re-read the dossier, and 'agent' is probably putting it too strongly. Ulfric was in contact with the Thalmor and possibly in their custody at one point. He is an 'asset' because of interrogation/instruction, and considered 'uncooperative' as in asset.

I don't know why an elf would want to live in Skyrim to begin with. They wouldn't take the fight to the Thalmor past driving every Altmer out of Skyrim. Once that was done, they'd keep to themselves and probably wouldn't have any foreign wars, especially not to help the Empire.

Drive every elf out means the Thalmor. They seem to have no issue with non-Thalmor Altmer or Bosmer.

Windhelm. That is, the city's population, hate Dunmer. Stormcloaks not from Windhelm do not. Not every Stormcloak is from Windhelm.

If they did, you'd hear about it because Stormcloak territories have higher elf populations.

The Reason the Argonians live outside the city is to keep themselves and the dumner separated.They are having issues with one another atm.

Ulfric is Jarl of Windhelm. The populace not getting along with Dunmer is one thing, but the Jarl denying them the basic rights of other citizens is another. This does not bode well for mer and beast-races if he becomes king.

Also, some characters who are prejudiced against Dunmer do not seem to be able to appreciate the differences between elves. Do you think that Ulfric's henchmen, who say they want to drive ALL ELVES out of Skyrim, would encourage the observation of such nicities? As I said, pogroms.


I agree with most of your post. As for the first bit: something to do with their homeland going 'boom', or fleeing Thalmor persecution, I imagine.